Scale Houserules

[Sanctaphrax]

Warning: slight spoilers for Dresden Files and Worm.

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This is the area chart:

A single target
A zone
A zone and every adjacent zone
A building
A couple of big buildings or a stream
A street
A city block or a farm
A neighbourhood
A hamlet or a hill
A village
A town or a small forest
A small city, or a dense one
A normal city or a lake
A big city, or a sprawling one
A really big city
A city plus suburbs or a mountain plus foothills
A big city plus suburbs
A major geographical feature
A very small country
A mountain range
A small country
An average country
A big-ish country
A genuinely big country
A country bigger than India
A small continent
A big continent or an ocean
A hemisphere
A planet

Use it when performing thaumaturgy that's intended to affect a large area. Spells generally start at "a single target" and move down up the chart at a cost of 2 complexity per step.

As explained in Your Story, wards and certain other spells have larger default sizes. At the GM's discretion such spells may be moved up the chart, reducing their complexity by 2 for each step.

This is the group chart:

1 person
2 people
4 people
8 people
16 people
32 people
64 people
128 people
2^8 people
2^9 people
2^10 people
and so on

Use it when performing thaumaturgy that's intended to affect a group of people through their blood or some other characteristic other than the area they're in. Spells generally start at "one person" and move down the chart at a cost of 2 complexity per step.

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LARGE-SCALE EFFECT [-1]
Description: The effects you incite are big. Really big. Big enough to alter maps, at least local ones.
Musts: You must have the Incite Effect Power in order to purchase this one.
Note: You may purchase this Power multiple times.
Skills Affected: Any.
Effects:
Vast Effect. Given a moment of peace in which to gather your strength, you may use Incite Effect to place an Aspect on a large area. The maximum area you can affect is one building, plus two steps down the area chart for each time you've purchased this Power. If you have the Area Effect upgrade, you may make the creation of the Aspect destructive. The exact amount of damage suffered by any given person or object in the area is determined by the GM.
Big Attacks. If you have the Area Effect upgrade, you may target any number of additional zones with it by reducing your weapon rating by 1 per zone.

LARGE-SCALE ATTACK [-1]
Description: Your attacks cover vast areas. You could rack up a ridiculous body count, if you tried your hand at terrorism.
Musts: You must have the Area Weaponry upgrade for either Natural Weaponry or Enhanced Telekinesis in order to purchase this Power.
Skills Affected: Fists, Guns, Weapons, Discipline.
Effects:
Bigger Area. You may target any number of additional zones with your Area Weaponry upgrade by reducing your weapon rating by 1 per zone.
Mass Destruction [-1]. Given a moment of peace in which to gather your strength, you may make attacks that damage very large areas. You may purchase this upgrade multiple times; one purchase allows you to hit an entire building with one attack and each subsequent purchase moves your maximum attackable area two steps down the area chart. This is not the same as attacking everyone inside the affected area - if you hit an entire city with a powerful attack the city will be wrecked and many people will die, but some people will be randomly unharmed. The GM adjudicates.

LARGE-SCALE SPELLCASTING [-2]
Description: Your magic isn't necessarily stronger than that of others, but it's bigger. It affects more of the world.
Musts: You must have some form of spellcasting to take this Power. Miracles counts.
Note: You may purchase this Power multiple times.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Discipline, Lore.
Effects:
Big Evocation. With one purchase of this Power, you may cast zone-wide evocation attacks and blocks at no shift cost. With two or more, you may affect additional zones for 1 shift apiece and may affect everyone involved in a conflict (including yourself) for 2 shifts.
Big Thaumaturgy. For each purchase of this Power, you may move each ritual spell you cast one step down the area chart or the group chart for free.

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Scion can crack continental plates with his laser beams. As such, he adds the Large-Scale Attack Power and 11 purchases of Mass Destruction to his Potent Selective Venomous Ranged Area Natural Weaponry.

Mab is a goddess, and her magic is naturally bigger than that of mortals. She has 3 purchases of Large-Scale Spellcasting, plus a Limitation attached to 15 more purchases to allow her to affect all of Winter with her spells without spending any shifts.

Shatterbird can break every piece of glass and computer equipment in an entire city by screaming. She has 6 purchases of Large-Scale Effect attached to her Incite Effect (Silicon Control) with a Limitation stating that she can only target an area if there's enough unbroken glass in it to transmit her scream.

Ebenezer wants to destroy a village. He thinks a 40-shift attack will do the trick, and adds 18 shifts onto that to move his spell 9 steps down the area chart. A 40-shift attack hits everything inside the village, killing the entire population instantly.

The Red Court wants to wipe out an entire bloodline. They expect to be facing powerful wards, so they make it a 100-shift attack. They then add 4 shifts to move 2 steps down the group chart so that they can affect up to 4 people - it's not a big bloodline. Later Dresden redirects the spell at the Red Court, aiming to take out roughly 100 000 vampires. This requires 17 steps down the group chart, so he subtracts 34 shifts from the spell and launches a 70-shift attack at every member of the Red Court.

Came up with this because I wanted to stat up gods, Scion, and Shatterbird. Figured I might as well make it a bit easier to represent things like Eb's satellite trick and the Changes uber-spell while I was at it.

As always, input would be greatly appreciated. The charts are basically made-up nonsense and I would really like a sanity check on them. And the Powers are occasionally handwavy.

Also, I'm not happy with the Power names. Any suggestions?

[AstronaughtAndy]

I think this is an awesome idea. Could the area chart also incorporate things like exceptionally large creatures and vehicles?

Evocation and thaumaturgy could have their own powers.

Taking sponsor debt to move down the area/group tables?

[Sanctaphrax]

Glad you like the idea.

I'd rather not have the area chart include big creatures, since those can already be targeted normally. No need to add a Complexity tax to any ritual used against a giant.

You can take debt for extra complexity, and you can use that to move down the tables. So yes.

[AstronaughtAndy]

I must've missed the line about thaumaturgy the first time I read it.

Perhaps in the spirit of Fate, the groups could have descriptive names as well numbers?

[Sanctaphrax]

Sure, why not.

Wanna come up with some?

[AstronaughtAndy]

Sure!

I'd maybe put the different military units in there.

4 = adventuring party
8 = adventuring party and allies, pack of wolves
16 = a squad, a SWAT team
Platoon, street gang
Company,
Battalion
Regiment

That's what I've got right now.

[vultur]

Cool.

I have to say that the Changes spell probably had way more complexity than this would suggest though. Wasn't it prepped by sacrificing dozens or hundreds of people -- which would imply a complexity in the thousands? With this, you could probably do it with about 45 complexity (7 to allow for an Epic defense + 4 + 20 for all consequences + 10 for a Mythic Toughness stress track + 3 for armor + 1 for takeout ).

That's not really a complaint about the rules though.

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This really needs to be used with some kind of rules limiting stacking Declarations for unlimited complexity. Otherwise pretty much anybody with Thaumaturgy can blow up a continent just by taking enough time.

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I think I might change the area chart a bit. In this version every 2 steps is (roughly....) x10 area. I added a lot of examples too.

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A single target
A zone
A zone and every adjacent zone
A large building
A few big buildings or a football field (an acre)
A city block or a street a few miles long (a hectare)
A few city blocks or the Great Pyramid
A neighbourhood
A hamlet or a large hill
A village
A square mile
A town or a small forest
A large town (ten square miles)
A small city, or a dense one (Manhattan Island)
A normal city or a lake (a hundred square miles)
A big city, or a sprawling one
A city plus suburbs or a large mountain plus foothills (a thousand square miles)
A really big city plus suburbs (Houston metropolitan area)
A very small country (Belize or Switzerland)
A smallish country or very, very big island (Panama or Iceland)
A moderate-sized country (the UK or New Zealand)
Texas, or a largish country (Venezuela or South Africa) or a large mountain range (the Rockies)
A very big country (Mexico or India)
A small continent or really huge country (Australia or the United States)
A big continent or an ocean (North America or the Atlantic)
A hemisphere
A planet

[PirateJack]

If you're preparing a ritual that large it's going to leave signs for anyone able and willing to look. You can guarantee that the White Council would come down hard on anyone trying to pull off something on that scale, with the Accords members backing them up too.

[Sanctaphrax]

I have to say that the Changes spell probably had way more complexity than this would suggest though. Wasn't it prepped by sacrificing dozens or hundreds of people -- which would imply a complexity in the thousands? With this, you could probably do it with about 45 complexity (7 to allow for an Epic defense + 4 + 20 for all consequences + 10 for a Mythic Toughness stress track + 3 for armor + 1 for takeout ).

That's not really a complaint about the rules though.

Yeah, the sacrifice rules get kind of weird once you do mass sacrifices. It's incredibly easy to generate ridiculous amounts of complexity. There should definitely be some kind of diminishing returns.

I pumped up the complexity to let the spell punch through wards. Eb has access to some good ones, after all.

This really needs to be used with some kind of rules limiting stacking Declarations for unlimited complexity. Otherwise pretty much anybody with Thaumaturgy can blow up a continent just by taking enough time.

They can already do that, I'm afraid. These rules just tell them how much work it'll be.

I think I might change the area chart a bit. In this version every 2 steps is (roughly....) x10 area. I added a lot of examples too.

(click to show/hide)

A single target
A zone
A zone and every adjacent zone
A large building
A few big buildings or a football field (an acre)
A city block or a street a few miles long (a hectare)
A few city blocks or the Great Pyramid
A neighbourhood
A hamlet or a large hill
A village
A square mile
A town or a small forest
A large town (ten square miles)
A small city, or a dense one (Manhattan Island)
A normal city or a lake (a hundred square miles)
A big city, or a sprawling one
A city plus suburbs or a large mountain plus foothills (a thousand square miles)
A really big city plus suburbs (Houston metropolitan area)
A very small country (Belize or Switzerland)
A smallish country or very, very big island (Panama or Iceland)
A moderate-sized country (the UK or New Zealand)
Texas, or a largish country (Venezuela or South Africa) or a large mountain range (the Rockies)
A very big country (Mexico or India)
A small continent or really huge country (Australia or the United States)
A big continent or an ocean (North America or the Atlantic)
A hemisphere
A planet

Mostly looks good. A few quibbles:

-I'd add another step between "Australia or the US" and "a continent or ocean". Asia is like seven times the size of Australia.

-Many villages cover more than a square mile.

-A street several miles long is a fair bit bigger than a city block.

Sure!

I'd maybe put the different military units in there.

4 = adventuring party
8 = adventuring party and allies, pack of wolves
16 = a squad, a SWAT team
Platoon, street gang
Company,
Battalion
Regiment

That's what I've got right now.

Not a bad start.

[AstronaughtAndy]

If someone knew how fire and police departments were organized we could add that too.

A car -> Squad? -> Precinct?
Ladder? -> Fire House?

[Cadd]

A problem with adding police and fire departments is that their organizations varies a lot more across the world than military ones do.

Edit: The prevalence of american media might make it useful to add these organizations american structures anyway, as most people have at least a passing aquaintance with them; they're just not going to be quite as "setting neutral" as the military group sizes.

[Tedronai]

Should clarify: 'Given a moment of peace in which to gather your strength'
preferably using game mechanics terms

[Sanctaphrax]

Not sure how to make it clearer. You need a tiny amount of time, and you need to not be in a fight.

Suggestions?

[Locnil]

Just wanted to chime in - as with all codification of rules, I think that this is awesome and pretty damn convenient, but rather susceptible to munchkinism. If possible I'd suggest adding limits on how far you can expand it by taking Powers - RAW, a Submerged character could use Incite Effect on an entire city. While it should be possible, for things like the Darkhallow, doing it as a starting character seems off. I'd like to suggest a maximum cap equal to your skill cap - it allows for legendary god-like beings and archmages like Cowl and Kemmler without breaking the setting, and it gives the GM more precise control over how high-powered the game is going to be.

Also, I understand that spellcasting is powerful, but doubling the cost for the power still seems off to me, especially when the new rules already allow casters to spend complexity (which RAW is practically free, unless you use my houserules) to expand the area of effect.

Also, I like that stuff like the ritual bloodline curse can now be statted out without GM fiat. Have you tried statting up the Darkhallow?

[Taran]

Just wanted to chime in - as with all codification of rules, I think that this is awesome and pretty damn convenient, but rather susceptible to munchkinism. If possible I'd suggest adding limits on how far you can expand it by taking Powers - RAW, a Submerged character could use Incite Effect on an entire city. While it should be possible, for things like the Darkhallow, doing it as a starting character seems off. I'd like to suggest a maximum cap equal to your skill cap - it allows for legendary god-like beings and archmages like Cowl and Kemmler without breaking the setting, and it gives the GM more precise control over how high-powered the game is going to be.

Also, I understand that spellcasting is powerful, but doubling the cost for the power still seems off to me, especially when the new rules already allow casters to spend complexity (which RAW is practically free, unless you use my houserules) to expand the area of effect.

+1