Need Help With Maneuver Focus Item

[HowardAJones]

I have a player with Seelie magic fascinated with creating an item that will give a bonus to attaching Aspects offensively. I suggested a +1 foci, offense, maneuver. But given that maneuver spells take a +3 shift, she's wanting to give herself a bigger bonus. And that's where I get lost in the math, no matter how many times I read it.

Can she dump three focus points into just this particular focus, seelie magic, offense, maneuver, and get a +3? Or does it take more points to get there? (or to =2 -- she could take =2).

Alternatively, is there a way to create an Item of Power that would allow her to tag aspects offensively? I don't see any examples that come anywhere close to doing that.

[Taran]

Let's not get foci and enchanted items mixed up.

1 focus item gives you 2 enchanted item slots.

If she wants to do an offensive maneuver, (as a regular spell), she can apply any offensive foci to casting the spell.

If she wants to make the offensive maneuver a Rote and then dedicate the foci to that Rote, she can boost the value of the foci by one. (making the foci worth +2 for that specific spell but she can't use it for any other spell-casting)

On the other hand she could make an Enchanted item.  This would be useable 1/session and would be limited by her Lore.  So if her Lore is 4, she can have a Maneuver 4 spell cast automatically 1/session.  If she wants to cast it more than that, she can spend a mental stress to power the item again.

And, while it only takes a 3 shift effect to create a maneuver, an enemy can 'save' against the maneuver.  The difficulty to save is the Power of the effect.  So if she only makes a 3 shift maneuver, the enemy only needs to roll a 3 (and then the aspect will be fragile) or a 4 and they'll avoid the maneuver completely.

Just to help more:  what is her character's Lore, discipline and Conviction?

[HowardAJones]

Thanks, Taran. That does help clear things up.

I am still a little confused by the example in YS279, where Evan Montrose has three focus item slots. In the example, one possibility is that he uses three focus item slots to make a single wand that gives him a +3 offensive power for wind evocation only.

Could my player do that, except that it's a +3 offensive power to maneuver evocation?

Thanks,
Howard

[Taran]

Thanks, Taran. That does help clear things up.

Could my player do that, except that it's a +3 offensive power to maneuver evocation?

Thanks,
Howard

Yes.  But if she dedicates it to a specific offensive maneuver spell, she can boost it by 1 to 4 instead of just +3.  But that will cost her all her focus item slots.  Is it worth it for one spell?

Her total bonus for 1 given focus item is limited by her Lore.  Also, the more bonuses she throws in to 1 item, the bigger the item has to be.

Let's say her Lore and discipline are 4 and her conviction is 3.

She can have a rote like this:
"off balance"
Power 4 Offensive Maneuver, resisted by Athletics or Might
Power: 4
2 stress to cast.

She gets 4 focus item slots.
Let's say she puts 1 in to offensive power and 1 into offensive control
She puts 1 into defensive control
She keeps the last one for 2 enchanted items.

If she ties her rote to her foci, it'll look like this:
"off balance"
Power 5 Offensive Maneuver, resisted by Athletics or Might
Power: 5
2 stress to cast.

If she wants to dedicate one of her focus items specifically to that spell(and no others), it'll grant a +2 bonus instead of 1.  So she could take the +1 bonus to Power and boost it to 2.  Then she'll only take one stress when she casts the spell.  Or she could boost the control by 2.  By doing that, she could boost the Power of her maneuver to 6 but she'll take 3 stress when she casts the spell.

The point is if she makes it a rote, she won't have to ever roll to control the spell.  If she doesn't want to make it a rote, then she can pump more points in to foci to ensure that she controls it...but I don't see the point of that.  Just make it a rote.

On the other hand, she has those 2 enchanted item slots.
She can have 1 item that is
Power 5 "off balance" maneuver, useable 1/session.  Targeted with Discipline. Then she can pay a stress to use it more often.  This is the best option IMO.

***

If she wants it all to go in to one item for one spell, she could do this(assuming the stats above)
Earing of concentration:
+2 control for any offensive air spell

Rod of bashing
+3 Air Power (+2 Power; +1 dedicated to Power the "bash" spell)

Rote Spell Bash:
Power 6 maneuver "bashed"
costs 1 stress to cast.

This Rod is not useful for any casting except for the "bash" spell.

[HowardAJones]

Taran, I'm grateful. That kind of detail was exactly the sort of help I needed. I really appreciate your creative solutions, and your illustrations for how you performed the calculations.

[Taran]

Taran, I'm grateful. That kind of detail was exactly the sort of help I needed. I really appreciate your creative solutions, and your illustrations for how you performed the calculations.

Thanks.  Obviously, there are other combinations of how to allocate your foci...I was just giving you examples of how I might do it.  And, hopefully, my math was correct 

[umdshaman]

maneuver spells take a +3 shift

Speaking of math, I thought I'd throw this in. Maneuvers are only 3 shifts if they're on the scene (or target friendlies, I guess). If the target is an unwilling sentient, then you need a number of shifts equal to their appropriate resisting score. (Athletics for a maneuver meant to trap them, for instance.)

[Taran]

Speaking of math, I thought I'd throw this in. Maneuvers are only 3 shifts if they're on the scene (or target friendlies, I guess). If the target is an unwilling sentient, then you need a number of shifts equal to their appropriate resisting score. (Athletics for a maneuver meant to trap them, for instance.)

I mentioned that here:

And, while it only takes a 3 shift effect to create a maneuver, an enemy can 'save' against the maneuver.  The difficulty to save is the Power of the effect.  So if she only makes a 3 shift maneuver, the enemy only needs to roll a 3 (and then the aspect will be fragile) or a 4 and they'll avoid the maneuver completely.

I usually make the target roll against the power of the maneuver as opposed to making it based on their straight-up skill.  The way you say is how it is RAW.  I just do a roll to make it consistent with everything else in combat and they can use FP's to boost or re-roll. 

In any case, it's a good reason to have the power of an offensive maneuver as high as possible. (if you want it to stick)

[Ceraph]

Heya Taran,

Great information. Thanks for sharing.

Regarding the foci you mentioned

Rod of bashing
+3 Air Power (+2 Power; +1 dedicated to Power the "bash" spell)

Would a player require independent +1 and +2 foci before they could wield it... or would a single +1 focus suffice?

[Taran]

Heya Taran,

Great information. Thanks for sharing.

Regarding the foci you mentioned

Rod of bashing
+3 Air Power (+2 Power; +1 dedicated to Power the "bash" spell)

Would a player require independent +1 and +2 foci before they could wield it... or would a single +1 focus suffice?

I don't know what you mean.  Let's say you have Thaumaturgy and Evocation.
You get 4 focus item slots.  You can allocate those bonuses into however many items as you want as long a single item does not have a bonus greater than your lore.

So, you could make a focus item that gives you a +4 to offensive control(as long as your Lore is, at least, 4).  That'll be all your slots but you'd have them in one item.  Or you could have 4 items with a +1 in each. 

But your +1's don't stack.  So you couldn't have 4 items that give you +1 offensive control for a total of +4.  You'd just use the highest bonus (+1).  Which is why items get so big.  If you want a bigger total, you need to cram it all in to one item.

Focus items don't follow a pyramid like Specializations do, if that's what you mean.

[Ceraph]

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

[vultur]

The "+1 if you tie it to a specific spell" IMO probably isn't worth it for maneuvers, since you can do so much with them. I think it makes more sense for a shield spell (honestly, I don't know why Harry's shield bracelet isn't statted this way in the book...) or even an attack spell (Harry pretty much just uses his blasting rod for "Fuego" and not much else).

[Cadd]

For the blasting rod, I assume it's to still enable its use even when deviating from the Rote-version of the spell, primarily when drawing a different amount of Power.
Possibly likewise for the shield bracelet. I agree though that there is no item in the books that better fit that mechanic!