Need Help with Sword Magic NPC

[Blackmako]

Hello,

I am getting ready to run a game with a NPC that uses Sponsored Magic. The NPC will sort of be based on "Uncle Doj" from the Black Company series. I want to have NPC swords master who uses "subtle" magic. So here is the sponsored magic I was thinking of using for the NPC.

TRANSCENDENT SWORDSMANSHIP [-4]
Description: Legends speak of heroes who fought dragons with nothing but sword and mail. These heroes fought creatures with nearly endless power and some of them actually won. Transcendent Swordsmanship channels the power of the heroes of old and uses it to do the impossible with swords.
Sponsor: Transcendent Swordsmanship is sponsored by the spirits, or perhaps the legends, of long-dead heroes.
Agenda: Transcendent Swordsmanship drives its user to destroy evil and to prove his own worth as a hero.
Evocation: Evocations cast with Transcendent Swordsmanship often resemble air or metal evocations, and they almost always emulate sword techniques.
Thaumaturgy: Transcendent Swordsmanship allows its user to cast rituals that tap into the legends of dead heroes, as well as rituals that summon spiritual warriors.
Evothaum: Transcendent Swordsmanship does not grant the ability to use Thaumaturgy with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: A character with Transcendent Swordsmanship replaces his Conviction skill with his Might skill and his Discipline skill with his Weapons skill for the purposes of spellcasting.
Note: Foci made to boost Transcendent Swordsmanship spells are almost always swords. That being said, there's nothing stopping Transcendent Swordsmanship from becoming Transcendent Axemanship in the hands of a specific character.

So here are the questions:

How does metal based evo and thaum work?

Does evocation work in concert with melee (if the focus of the magic is swordsmanship based)? If so how would it work? If not how should I use magic to enhance melee or melee to enhance magic?

What rotes would you suggest for this sponsored magic to work cinematically and mechanically?

What thaum should he use...biomancy...divination...crafting...summoning etc (I see the line about summoning spirit warriors). What would "tapping" into "legends" look like?

The group has three magic type characters (two wizards and one sorcerer). I am hoping to get the mechanics worked out for the above sponsored magic.

Thanks so much in advance for any rotes, suggestions, and advise on mechanics.

[umdshaman]

Okay, so before I get into trying to help answer your questions (and meaning no offense to the original author) remember that this is a homebrew power. Personally I think tacking on 2 better-than-stunts (switching the skill trappings in ALL cases) as "extra benefits" for no additional cost is a bit much. IMO, if your GM even allows it it should probably be -5 or even -6.

How does metal based evo and thaum work?

That's kind of up to you. Obviously any "summoning" type effect is going to use metal (as opposed to fire evocation blasting with fire, a metal evocation might send a wall of blades; a shield make take the form of a literal shield). On the other hand, more conceptual effects (water is entropic, for instance) would depend on the properties of metal as an element. You could just go from the properties of metal or you could try taking it as Metal from Wu Xing. Wu Xing is similar to other 5 element systems but replaces Air and Spirit with Metal and Wood. Wood has strong spiritual associations but in Japanese culture (if L5R is to be believed; I couldn't find any quick support so I'm not positive) the katana is one of the few non-human things that contains significant elements of Void (Spirit) and thus Metal could be considered Spirit. I can't really say which set of associations feels "right" to me, but if you decide to go that route pick a pairing, borrow the appropriate DF associations with the given element (Air or Spirit), and explain it to your GM.

Does evocation work in concert with melee (if the focus of the magic is swordsmanship based)? If so how would it work? If not how should I use magic to enhance melee or melee to enhance magic?

No. Or yes. So, with few exceptions (reflexive blocks; the question of which already has several threads dedicated to it) any sort of magic is an action and you can only perform one action per exchange. However, what this particular form of Sponsored Magic appears to represent is the idea of using melee AS magic. When you cast a spell, you're not doing either; you're doing both... you're just doing it using the mechanics for casting a spell. Another way to look at it might be the idea of "secret techniques" or ninjutsu often found in anime. And, hey, you can use Focus Items to (effectively) boost your Weapons skill above the normal possible. eg...

Death of 1000 Cuts: Attack evocation. In a normal attack you use your weapon's Weapon rating. Since you use Weapons as your Control(/targeting) skill, this is essentially an attack with a Weapon rating equal to your Power (Might); unless you choose to define it otherwise.

Blade Wall: Block evocation. In melee, you might be able to 'dodge' with your Weapons skill normally but with this you can even block incoming projectiles or magical attacks (in theory).

As for enhancing ordinary melee, the best way to do that is Aspect maneuvers. Of course, you're probably better off not wasting your magic on this since you can do it mundanely...

Overall if you just want better melee you might be better off with Stunts, but I hope the above helped give you some ideas of how magic and melee might work together.

What rotes would you suggest for this sponsored magic to work cinematically and mechanically?

The above would be good places to start.

What thaum should he use...biomancy...divination...crafting...summoning etc (I see the line about summoning spirit warriors). What would "tapping" into "legends" look like?

Erg... okay, so biomancy is a field of study. You can't do biomancy. You might be able to do some of things biomancy does, but you can't do biomancy. For the rest... yes. The real question of magic (sponsored or otherwise) isn't "What can it do?" but "How can I make it do what I want?" Divination? The combined wisdom (or ghostly senses or whatever is relevant to the situation) of thousands of legendary swordsmen. Crafting? You're probably pretty good at making swords... what might a legendary sword be capable of? (maybe start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_magical_weapons). Summoning? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_teeth_(mythology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army It's all in the imagination.

[Sanctaphrax]

How does metal based evo and thaum work?

For evocation, I usually go with creating blades and chains and walls of steel out of thin air. Basically conjuration, with a duration of a few seconds at most. Mechanically no different from any element, of course.

But Transcendent Swordsmanship doesn't usually do that sort thing. Its metal evocations would be something like, "I swing my sword and ten people twenty feet away get chopped in half".

For thaumaturgy, you could manipulate, create, animate, and generally mess with metal. Could maybe also give metallic properties to non-metal things. But Transcendent Swordsmanship doesn't do metal rituals.

What would "tapping" into "legends" look like?

Up to you, but I'd suggest blessing people with the traits of legendary people. Maybe also calling up and talking to echoes of mythical heroes.

Okay, so before I get into trying to help answer your questions (and meaning no offense to the original author) remember that this is a homebrew power. Personally I think tacking on 2 better-than-stunts (switching the skill trappings in ALL cases) as "extra benefits" for no additional cost is a bit much. IMO, if your GM even allows it it should probably be -5 or even -6.

There's been some disagreement about that. Some people will let you use different skills freely and some people will charge you 1 Refresh for each skill changed.

The approach I use, and the one this Power uses (can't remember the author), is that there's a -1 Power which changes all 3 casting skills. So far it's worked out pretty well for me.

This Power's skill swap seems like a fairly weak one to me. Spellcasting already covers many of the functions of Might and Weapons so it's not that exciting to use Might and Weapons for casting. And you still need Conviction for mental stress.

PS: What do you mean by "better-than-stunts"? Moving a trapping in all cases is a standard stunt effect.

[UmbraLux]

So here are the questions:

Q fo you also - are you determined to use a sponsored magic style power?  There are other possibilities.  Depending on how you apply the Laws, they may be an issue with spellcasting swordsmanship.

How does metal based evo and thaum work?

Same as any evo/thaum - your theme changes but not really what you can do (i.e. attack, block, maneuver, or counterspell for evocation) or how you accomplish it.

As for rotes, I'd recommend a block and whatever utility spells (possibly a sword sharpening maneuver?) you want.  An alpha strike attack may also be worthwhile.  I'd go with the theme though, enhance swordamanship and let your sword be your attack. 

[umdshaman]

PS: What do you mean by "better-than-stunts"? Moving a trapping in all cases is a standard stunt effect.

YS implies that they should be restricted when describing it but the examples don't bear that out. I'm not sure I'd allow it unrestricted in a game I was running (it feels a bit too powerful) but, meh. I concede the point where the RAW is concerned.

[Blackmako]

Q fo you also - are you determined to use a sponsored magic style power?  There are other possibilities.  Depending on how you apply the Laws, they may be an issue with spellcasting swordsmanship.

Good point/question Umbra.

For our game, splattering non-humans with magic does not violate first law. Then again the non-humans tend to be pretty evil. Glad you brought it up. Need to make sure the npc is not using evocation to chop up humans.

As far as determined to use sponsored magic...I am open. The goal is a npc whose magic is relatively subtle and easy to rationalize that he is doing crazy Asian martial arts. Also that his magic is not in the weight class of an actual wizard. The description of the sponsored magic caught my attention. Especially as ancestor worship/regard/respect fits an inscrutable Asian sword master.

The goal is to have a non-traditional npc show a player who is making a knight of the cross the ropes. The character is a staunch catholic and very western in mindset (a little bit black and white in philosophy). So hitting her up with a jedi like teacher (as Lucas spoke with Joseph Campbell about Jedi and used the concept of zen masters with swords). So rather than a teacher that is juiced up with divine powers one that uses the magic of ancestors and traditions to fight the good fight. Since Shino is dead and Dresden is the Winter Knight in our campaign going to throw Shino's sword to the NPC.

Thank you Umd for those rote ideas. You gave me the visual I need with the mechanics. How do focus items boost skills?

The mechanism for skill swap is new to me. So thanks for the clarification on that Sancta. And thanks for the clarification on metal with thaum. I definitely see what you mean know about thaum to speak to ancestors. Said ancestors having commentary on how to fight monsters or the back story of monsters.

I was thinking of looking at Butchers other series. If I remember correctly one of the characters had a metal spirit and was a swordsman.

[umdshaman]

Thank you Umd for those rote ideas. You gave me the visual I need with the mechanics. How do focus items boost skills?

It's contextual. You use Weapons as your 'targeting' roll for magical attacks, so where if your sword is a +Power Focus Item you are effectively increasing the potential Weapon rating of your attack (without taking additional mental stress), when your sword is a +Control Focus Item you are increasing the accuracy of your attacks. If you're not doing magic it doesn't help at all; hence my comment about using stunts instead of magic.

I was thinking of looking at Butchers other series. If I remember correctly one of the characters had a metal spirit and was a swordsman.

Indeed. They basically use it to enhance the metal, as far as I can tell. So they an make it harder and sharper to the point where they can cut through normal steel like butter (basically, what you'd be doing with a magic-as-swordplay attack). You might be able to get some other ideas out of it though. I've only just started Cursor's Fury, myself.

[Mr. Death]

I think having Weapons act as the casting skill is fine, but I think Conviction should still be the power skill; it makes sense in the whole context of the spirituality attributed to swordsmanship in various times and settings.

As for metal evocation, I've got an NPC or two who use it, usually I've had the evocation serve as a reason for boosted melee attack and defense--a Weapon:5 metal evocation attack would represent using the magic to guide and sharpen the sword well beyond normal range (think Codex Alera's metalcrafters here).

Once when deprived of her sword, that NPC used the magic to kick down metal doors and use a chain as a whip.

Indeed. They basically use it to enhance the metal, as far as I can tell. So they an make it harder and sharper to the point where they can cut through normal steel like butter (basically, what you'd be doing with a magic-as-swordplay attack). You might be able to get some other ideas out of it though. I've only just started Cursor's Fury, myself.

Per Butcher, they also can sense the location of all metal around them, meaning they don't have to devote energy to actually keeping track of their opponents or their swords. Part of their awesome swordsmanship is they are free to use the mental energy usually necessary for that to plan their own actions.

[UmbraLux]

As far as determined to use sponsored magic...I am open. The goal is a npc whose magic is relatively subtle and easy to rationalize that he is doing crazy Asian martial arts. Also that his magic is not in the weight class of an actual wizard.

If you want something less powerful than magic you might try creating a power.  Something like this perhaps.

Transcendent Swordsman version 0.2b [-2]
Description: Your skill with a blade is supernatural.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Weapons
Effects:
One Blade is Many. A Transcendent Swordsman may split attacks or attack everyone in a zone.  (Standard mechanics.)
Mind Controls the Blade. Spending a point of mental stress allows the swordsman to choose a number equal to or less than his Weapons and roll Conviction. If successful they may choose one of the following:
-    Perfect Steel. Add the number to your next attack or block.
-    Wall of Steel. Subtract the number from the next melee attack targeting him or an ally in the same zone.
-    Strength of Steel. Add twice the number to damage against inanimate objects.

I Become the Blade. Spending a point of mental stress allows the swordsman to roll Conviction (4). If successful they may choose one of the following:
-    Steel Fury. Take two actions on his next turn as long as at least one is an attack with his sword.
-    Steel Mind. Use Weapons to intimidate for a scene.
-    Steel Water. Use Weapons to counterspell.

No warranties...that's off the top of my head with no testing.    It's not nearly as flexible as using sponsored magic but still uses the same resource/concept of spending mental energy.

[Sanctaphrax]

I normally use Supernatural Martial Arts for this sort of thing.

[Blackmako]

Thank you all for the help.  I was able to use the NPC successfully in the story. The ideas for rotes and the mechanics sure helped.

I did end up keeping Conviction as the skill for power. It made a lot more sense for the character and mechanically. Belief in magic is a big deal in Dresden. So belief in ancestors and righteous action and "void" made better sense for fueling beyond human swordsmanship. Conviction helped to explain the "void"/"non-action" elements of Zen sword saints. The foci element was an interesting twist. So when using sword magic he had a better pool to hit than when just swinging the sword. So it made it that the sword saint could only operate from the void for as long as he had mental stress/consequences available.

To side step the whole argument about sponsored magic and the Laws I had the NPC only use destructive magics against inhuman bad guys and regular skill vs non-evil humans. Still not sure how to land with sponsored magics beyond the sidhe courts with the laws. Its sure sticky given that spending 4 pts vs 6 pts with a speed pass for the laws is difficult.

So thanks for the help. Forums helped pull off the PC