Player Run Business

[mrwakka]

Anyone know of any rules for this sort of thing?

I have already developed something for this since my players went all out in order to buy a bar (out from under a god no less), but wanted to check it against some other rules to see how it matched up. The goal isn't for it to be a central focus, or a money printing machine. But knowing my players they will want to be able to tinker with it, so I wanted some simple mechanics for it that I can have bonuses or penalties for when they, or their enemies, do.

(click to show/hide)

Mechanics
Default 'monthly' roll is Presence against a passive difficulty of 2.

• A roll lower is a loss, roll 4df to determine losses. 0 is -1,000, 1 is – 2,500, 2 is -5,000, 3 is -7,500, and 4 is -10,000.
  
• Even is break even.
• Above is a profit, roll 4df to determine success. 0 is 1,000, 1 is 2,500, 2 is 5,000, 3 is 7,500, and 4 is 10,000.
  
  This is modified by any penalties and bonuses.

[blackstaff67]

Combo of Resources and Contacts upgrades.

[Taran]

I would make it simple:

Make it a city aspect.  They can invoke it for resource rolls (for those months the bar is making money) or you can compel it against resource rolls (for those months the bar is losing money).  Or you can compel the aspect to have bad stuff happen to the bar...like when that God sends thugs to go wreck the place, or someone kidnaps one of their employees.

It's also a good excuse for one of the players to buy an appropriate stunt like 'filthy lucre' or some equivalent.  Probably whichever character does 'the books'.

[mrwakka]

@Blackstaff67 Problem there is that they all jointly own it, and went pretty heavily in debt to do it, so I suppose I could treat it as a person and give it its own ranks, but would be rather complicated to base it off the players skills. (In total they are collectively 850k in debt, one player has a an extreme consequence duration aspect of 'tapped out', and one kind of used herself as collateral to her faerie grandfather if she fails to do a favor to be named later.)

@Taran The aspect idea isn't a bad one, but I think it would be a bit too abstract for this group. In a previous d&d based campaign they spent the majority of a 4 hour session designing the layout of an inn they decided to buy.

[Taran]

but are they keeping track of their money?  Usually resource declarations are used for buying stuff.

I'd use contacts to "spread the word"  about the Bar.Using the "spreading rumours" trapping.   and Resources for the actual money matters.  Presence doesn't really fit.

If you don't want to worry about money, but still want to have it affect their resources, you could assign a difficulty each month.  If they succeed, they(the group as a whole)  get a free tag on a resource roll.  You can give them an extra tag for each 3 shifts of success.  Each tag is essentially extra money used to buy stuff.

Regarding Time:
Instead of in-game time, you may want to consider having it done per session or per story arch or per milestone.  It might make it easier.  I dunno.

Regarding the roll
If the whole group is working together to succeed, you should make the difficulty fairly high since each member of the group could, potentially, do a maneuver to increase the roll of the main person.

Actually, now that I think of it...bars are a lot of work.  I think an extended test would be best suited for this....Let me think of something that would fit and would give each player a chance to work towards making the bar better...

[mrwakka]

Money is being tracked for the bar/loan cost purposes, each 'month' they have a quota they have to meet. They can still roll resources to cover the costs if the bar falls short, except the one player who is tapped out for awhile. Works well to set them up to take a job for the paycheck if I am having difficulty getting them hooked otherwise.

[Taran]

O.k here's the idea...it's very rough and may need some tweaking.

The 3 most relevant skills for running a business are probably
Contacts; Resources; Scholarship  (but maybe there's others that are better....like I said rough draft.

The business is a Character:
Let's say the best resources of the party dictates the bars stress track.
The best Contacts is its attack/defense  (promotion n' stuff)
Possibly use scholarship as a defense skill as well: accounting and research.

Each "X" time period(month, session, milestone - whatever), play the mini-game.  The Bar has to resist an attack of "X".  This is just the cost of doing business.  The business takes stress and consequences like a regular character but flavour them properly.  "leaky roof", broken window,  Electrical Fire, Bad Reputation.

If someone has it out for your players(like a godling they may have pissed off), that enemy can add aspects/maneuvers to add to the attack.

Once per time period, the players can, each, do an appropriate maneuver to add to the businesses defense.  Contacts to advertise, scholarship to save money with accounting, Deceit to cook the books (if you have forgery or something suitable.);  resources to put in that new dance floor etc...

Occasionally, let them "upgrade" the bar by doing an extended tests.  Basically, this adds positive aspects to the bar:  "security system"; "Hot spot for bands".

These might be extended tests using appropriate skills.

The bar will heal itself of consequences like a normal character, over time provided they do something to "start the healing".   A broken window (mild)  might need a single craftsmanship or resource roll and it will go away by the next attack.

A moderate of "Seedy Hangout" might require a successful contacts roll and will last multiple "exchanges".

I'm sure someone can throw in some ideas.  The thing is this.  It gives them the ability to customize their bar, work on it, improve it.  It gives them aspects they can invoke over time.  It gives enemies a different way of "attacking" them and throwing wrenches at them.


While I was typing:

Money is being tracked for the bar/loan cost purposes, each 'month' they have a quota they have to meet. They can still roll resources to cover the costs if the bar falls short, except the one player who is tapped out for awhile. Works well to set them up to take a job for the paycheck if I am having difficulty getting them hooked otherwise.

Ah, well that'll work since it's a separate "mini-game".

[umdshaman]

Money is being tracked for the bar/loan cost purposes, each 'month' they have a quota they have to meet. They can still roll resources to cover the costs if the bar falls short, except the one player who is tapped out for awhile. Works well to set them up to take a job for the paycheck if I am having difficulty getting them hooked otherwise.

FATE avoids hard definitions (such as dollar signs) like the plague, so I see what you're going for but I'd suggest against it. Here's my analysis of the situation.

* One player has made a faerie deal. Technically as a mortal they can renege, but doing so would have some pretty hefty narrative consequences (and possibly mechanical, depending on what they are and how they swore).
* One player has an extreme consequence. That's literally all he needs to represent the debt. Do keep in mind, though, that it is an aspect and if you're going to use it prevent him from rolling for resources he probably deserves a FATE point each time. Plus, unless he takes those paychecks, he can't really have started the "healing" process so he's got a pretty big incentive.
* If the rest don't have deals or aspects based on this then in the FATE system they're still narratively "in hoc" but not to a degree that affects their day-to-day. Any impact for them should probably be a mild inconvenience and not mechanical at all.
* If the bar wasn't a location in the city, add it. Obviously it is something that's important to the characters.
* Either way, give the bar a (new) theme - not threat! - and aspect. It's changed hands after all and that's not going to be superficial. Now you can use your new aspect to get the players to do what you want (although you have to compel each of them separately if that's what you want so get ready to drop some FATE points).
* Offer the players the opportunity to change the theme and aspect if they pay off the bar (make an arbitrary number of 'paychecks' in your head). Maybe let each player create a permanent scene aspect for the bar as a means of 'designing' it. (The carrot)
* Put an arbitrary minimum (once per significant milestone?) percentage of the time that they have to pay the principle (take a job for the 'paycheck') or they lose the bar. And if they lose it, there's probably going to be a god waiting in the wings to snatch it up with far less trouble than before. (The stick).

[mrwakka]

While I can agree with the idea of fate avoiding hard definitions, in this case a defined number was required. I do not think it negatively impacts them having it as such either. I think they would be more bothered by having the debt being more nebulous. In this way they know how much they owe, and can see it steadily chipped away at.

I do like Taran's idea of treating it more like a character, and will probably move along that route.

Lots of good ideas and perspectives here for me to work with, thanks everyone!

[Taran]

I do like Taran's idea of treating it more like a character, and will probably move along that route.

Thanks.  If you do, then I've thought of some ideas since my last post that might refine it a bit.

- Let them clear the bar's stress track every 12 exchanges/months (the new fiscal year!) or, maybe at 6 months.

-Maneuvers to boost the bar's defenses should be things that the PC's could easily do in that month.  Contacts to "promote", resources/or Rapport to have "happy/loyal employees".

-Actual upgrades should take a long time.  Making it 'THE' supernatural 'hangout' might require an extended contacts test with a difficulty of 12 (for example) where each roll happens over a 2 week period.  So before they can earn that aspect, it might be 6 months.

Or you can drop them a bone.  "there's a fae Lord that, if you can convince him your bar is "the" place to be, then it won't take as long.  Now, instead of an extended test, they're off on an adventure through the Nevernever to convince a Sidh Lord to visit the bar...

-If the bar gets taken out, they've gone out of business.  If they concede, then maybe someone steps in to help them out....like a local mobster or something

[PirateJack]

~snip~

Congratulations, you've actually made me want to simulate running a business in my RPGs now.

[Seidmadr]

Ok. This thread has made me officially love FATE, considering that people are arguing MULTIPLE ways to use the existing rule system to represent a bar. I am truly impressed.