Author Topic: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"  (Read 4235 times)

Offline g33k

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Jedidiah Joseph Ronald Talbot
(Jay, or JJ, to his friends; "Jedidiah" to his family)

geek and deluded "Jedi Apprentice"



After a 6-movie Star Wars marathon on Saturday with his Sci-Fi club,
and a mix of Jackie Chan movies & various anime all day (and far
into the night) on Sunday with the anime club, JJ walked into school
Monday morning very short of sleep and still running on a high of
heroics and slapstick action-comedy.

At 10:11AM, during recess, the bullies of his high-school (a clique
made of guys from the wrestling team and linebackers from the
football team) ambushed JJ in the bathroom, with the object of
"teaching the geek a lesson" via repeatedly flushing his head.

Always much quicker than average (an early but un-realized forebear
of his magical powers), JJ had actually dodged the first three
attempts to grab him, but he was blindsided by one of the wrestlers
and hit the ground hard; the football players dogpiled on, and a
few moments later he was dragged to his feet, and over to a toilet
stall.

It was at this moment that his "Force Powers" manifested.  Suddenly,
with a simple "thrust" gesture, even the heaviest opponent could be
shoved backwards; with a reaching or grasping motion, he could pull
objects to him; with a wave, he could move them about.

Suddenly, the one-sided fight was one-sided in the other direction,
hilariously so.  Stall-doors whacked JJ's assailants in the face,
hit them from behind, knocked them into one another.  Paper towels
streamed off their rolls like pale brown pythons, wrapping around
arms, tripping legs, tying the bullies in knots.  Sinks and toilets
sprayed water in their faces, under their feet, or hit with firehose
force.  Before 10:13AM, it was all over.



The school was never able to make sense of the reports.  Eleven
trained athletes (known bullies and troublemakers, all) complained
of being "assaulted" by a (notably non-athletic) geek.  The bathroom
where it happened was trashed (obviously by a large group).  The
only conclusion they could come to -- but could not prove -- was
that JJ must have assembled a group of science-and-engineering-geek
allies to cleverly "booby-trap" the bathroom into a series of
bully-traps, and somehow "tempted" them into trying to beat him up
there.

Everybody involved was suspended for a day, but -- lacking any sign
of others' involvement -- the matter went no further.

After that, JJ occasionally pulled the "Jedi Mind Trick" on a few
bullies -- "You don't need to beat me up.  I'm not worth your time.
Move along" -- but undertook a rigorous physical-training program
(based on the scenes with Luke and Yoda on Dagobah).  Desptite the
temptations to use it on cheerleaders and other "highschool hotties"
(e.g. "You want to go out with me.  You want to make out with me")
he avoided the more-deleterious uses of his power... nevertheless,
he's stuck with a Lawbreaker-4th stunt.

He graduated a year and a half later, and is attending the local JC
(previously university-bound, he has been "distracted" from that
course by his "Jedi Powers.")



He grasps his magic as "Jedi Powers" and follows that template
very closely (he has no realization of the real state of affairs).
If there are Jedi, there must be Sith too... somewhere... and
probably various aliens, too... and sundry bits ofultra-high-
tech.  The reality of the supernatural world, as he experiences it,
may well fit within this framework for some time to come, although
several elements (gates to the Nevernever, etc) have no good Star-
Wars-Universe matches, and may shake his new worldview.

Because of the strongly belief-driven nature of one's own magic,
and JJ's belief that he's a Jedi, his magic-driven Hexing power
doesn't affect technology the way most wizards' power does; after
all, Jedi have no problems using technology!  JJ sees himself as
an action-hero-in-training, a champion of justice against villainy
(of which bullying is only the first, petty step).  Consequently,
his "hexing" ability tends to manifest in battle as making him a
"primary/preferred target" for many foes (unless they have reason
to choose another), and out of battle it gives him improbably-
frequent "opportunities" to fulfill the action-hero persona.

Emergency-services first-responders are beginning to wonder at
how often JJ is there -- RIGHT THERE -- when these life-threatening
emergencies go down.  Preliminary police investigations have
cleared him in most of these cases, however -- equipment failure
he could not possibly have tampered with, other peoples' errors in
judgement, etc -- leaving officials puzzled and suspicious, but
not currently inclined to act.



His Character Sheet looks something like this:

Jedidiah Joseph Ronald Talbot, "JJ"
(Jay, or JJ, to his friends; "Jedidiah" to his family)

High Concept:  "Jedi-mancer"
Trouble:  but... I'm only an apprentice!

SKILLS:

+5 Conviction, Discipline
These are key "Jedi" skills

+4 Athletics, Alertness
Formerly non-athletic, he has been passionate about his
"Jedi Training" for well over a year, and he practices
the mix of stillness and alertness he thinks every Jedi
should master

+3 Scholarship, Endurance
Although he's strayed from the academic path, he's still
a bright Honors-Student kind of kid; his Endurance has also
benefited from his "Jedi Training Regimen."

+2, +1 -- Remain to be filled in.  Almost certainly no "Lore,"
however:  he doesn't believe in magic or the rest of that
supernatural crap.  He's a Jedi!


Powers:

-2 Channeling "Jedi Powers"
(he has no "Focus Item" slots, so I've assigned him the point-equivalent
of a Refinement:  +1 Power, +1 Control)

-2 Inhuman Speed (another of his "Jedi Powers")

-0 Jedi Foreseeing (like Cassandra's Tears)
He sees a few moments into the future, enough that in a fight he has
the equivalent Initiative of "Supernatural Speed" (but not the rest of
that ability)... but sometimes people notice that he "reacts" before
whatever it is that he's supposedly "reacting to," so friends and
acquaintances are sometimes getting a bit "creeped out."

-1 Supernatural Sense:  "the Force"
Works like in the movies, interpreting supernatural and life-force via
his own persone framework of understanding.

-1 Alternate Hexing:  instead of tech-hexing, he tends to be on-the-spot
when emergencies and minor disasters go down, and a preferred target
whenever he gets into battle.

-2 "Lightsaber":  for his 15th birthday, his parents gave him one of
the premium handcrafted "lightsaber" replicas that can be bought online.
After he "became a jedi" that day in the bathroom, he tinkered with it
until it "really worked."  Treat it as a "Weapon:3" sword, but he uses
Conviction instead of "Weapon" in combat -- it is fundamentally a
magical attack.  It can cut through almost any mundane material.

-2 "Jedi Parry":  Using his lightsaber & Conviction, he can apply a Block,
and often a Riposte, to almost any attack:  even a bullet can be bounced
away, although he needs a separate Discipline roll to re-aim a bullet
rather than having it randomly ricochet.

-1 Lawbreaker (Fourth):  "The Jedi Mind Trick"   JJ was raised a moral
young man, and is modeling himself on modern heroic imagery.  He does
not recognize what a slippery slope he is on with the "Jedi Mind Trick,"
but his rearing and internal modelling have so far prevented him from
slipping down past the -1 level of this stunt.

Offline Hick Jr

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 10:57:33 PM »
Hmm. I love the concept. However, it looks like you have him at Submerged, at which point the character is typically aware of the supernatural world. But that's just flavor and ergo something you can gloss over.

Mechanics-wise, I have some suggestions. Replace Channeling:Jedi Powers, Lightsaber, and Jedi Parry with Incite Effect, which is sort of an expansion on Incite Emotion that i've put in the spoiler below.

(click to show/hide)

So to represent what you seem to want to do here (telekinesis, force pushing, mind tricks), you would probably take Incite Effect (Jedi Powers, with Conviction or Discipline)(Ranged, Physical, Mental, Mass, Selective), which comes out to -6 Refresh. You could also use this to represent the "lightsaber" and Jedi Parry by taking Potent and Protective effect, and then possibly a Riposte-esque stunt to let you actually reflect attacks.

Alternate Hexing is probably something that would be better represented with Compels than an actual power. Even then, I wouldn't charge you any Refresh for it.

Given that the Force can be used to sense a really wide variety of things, I might actually charge -2 for it, but -1 is probably fine.

Jedi Foreseeing as a reskin of Cassandra's Tears seems fine. However, two custom powers that might interest you-
Precognition and Prophecy, in the spoiler below.
(click to show/hide)

It pretty well represents both Jedi Battle Meditation and the whole visions-of-the-future thing. Another two powers that i've always thought of as pretty Jedi-y are Telekinesis and Telepathy, in yet another spoiler below.
(click to show/hide)
Those powers represent a lot of Jedi stuff pretty well, but it'd probably cost more Refresh than you're interested in spending.


Hope all that helped!
Hi! My home is called an apiary! I collect honey, and defend the Queen!

Not-so-secretly a power hungry megalomaniac with a Modular Abilities addiction.

Offline Taran

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 12:07:03 AM »
Guide my hand could also work for the whole "foreseeing" thing.  I actually think it fits his description better than Cassandra's Tears.

Offline Hick Jr

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 12:08:09 AM »
Oh, yeah, Guide My Hand would work incredibly well for that. It also covers the whole "Showing Up" thing that JJ has going on.
Hi! My home is called an apiary! I collect honey, and defend the Queen!

Not-so-secretly a power hungry megalomaniac with a Modular Abilities addiction.

Offline umdshaman

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 06:14:02 AM »
Two quick thoughts; take them as you see fit. One is that it seems far more likely that in the absence of any sort of evidence or witnesses the school would conclude that the clique had gone through some sort of infighting and trashed the bathroom in the process, but without those things couldn't do much more than detention. The other is that Lawbreaker stunt isn 't NECCESARY. Influencing minds isn't forbidden (veils, illusions, Harry's lust potion); only mucking with it on a fundamental level (like curing someone of their addiction). Or at least that's where the novels seem to draw the line.

Unrelated thing; your mind trick sounds like a one-hit takeout thaum spell... which are exceedingly expensive.

Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 10:58:28 AM »
Two quick thoughts; take them as you see fit. One is that it seems far more likely that in the absence of any sort of evidence or witnesses the school would conclude that the clique had gone through some sort of infighting and trashed the bathroom in the process, but without those things couldn't do much more than detention. The other is that Lawbreaker stunt isn 't NECCESARY. Influencing minds isn't forbidden (veils, illusions, Harry's lust potion); only mucking with it on a fundamental level (like curing someone of their addiction). Or at least that's where the novels seem to draw the line.

Unrelated thing; your mind trick sounds like a one-hit takeout thaum spell... which are exceedingly expensive.
At the risk of derailing the thread, I suggest you look at 3rd and 4th Law violations again.  Lawbreaker IS necessary; just cos you don't think you're using magic means the WC will agree. 

On the second point, I agree with you wholeheartedly; not only that, but it's attacking the mental stress track of the target.  At the very least I'd rule that using that power alerts any creature that would be aware of it in the vicinity, treating it like a mental evocation that can draw the attention of other beings.  That said, I am a slightly sadistic GM, but for only three or four Refresh this can be a game-breaking power--he could take out the Naaglioshi in two turns, three tops.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 05:29:24 PM »
Don't allow mental attack evocations. Just don't.

Trust me, it's not a good idea.

Jedi Foreseeing provides a benefit and therefore should have a cost.

Trading in your focus slots for a free Refinement isn't fair, but since you have no Lore you can't use those specializations anyway. So it probably doesn't matter.

Alternate Hexing doesn't need to cost anything.

Lightsaber and Jedi Parry are sloppily written, but ought to work out okay in play.

Offline umdshaman

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 09:56:19 PM »
At the risk of derailing the thread, I suggest you look at 3rd and 4th Law violations again.  Lawbreaker IS necessary; just cos you don't think you're using magic means the WC will agree.

I think you misread me. I'm not saying that it has anything to do with his intent (or knowledge). I think my example adequately indicate the sort of difference I'm talking about. It's perfectly reasonable (if, perhaps, walking the line) to dial up the other guy's concerns about something to make feel like its not worth the trouble.

Thinking about it, this might be better reflected by putting an aspect on the guy and using the free tag to try compelling him.

Offline PirateJack

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2014, 11:57:38 PM »
Harry uses a compulsion ward on his storage box in Turn Coat. Harry made it quite clear that as long as they still have the free will to choose to follow the compulsion, it doesn't break the Fourth Law (maybe toes the line a little). I'd say the Jedi Mind Trick is less of a 'Leave Me Alone', more 'Wouldn't You Rather Go Home?' The first is an order, the second is a suggestion and that is the important difference in whether it breaks the Fourth Law or not, I think.
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Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 03:39:16 AM »
Fair enough, I yield the field to you, sirs.
My Purity score: 37.2.  Sad.

Offline g33k

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 09:34:01 PM »
@... well, just about everyone.

Thanks for all the comments and assistance...  Much appreciated!

RE "Guide My Hand" -- This is a spend-refresh item because it puts you in "the right place at the right time," for some essentially noble (and probably ineffable) "Cause."   It can "crack a case" when the character is stymied, bring in reinforcements when the character is overwhelmed, etc.  Although sometimes (often?) inconvenient and/or uncomfortable, it fundamentally works to the advantage of the character and/or their goals/wants/ethos/etc.   This has the "wrong feel" for Jedidiah; his "being on the spot" is really more of a "hexing" sort of event, a "complicate his life" with any upside being entirely incidental and without overarching Grand Plan benefits.  It replaces the tech-hex, which mostly just serves as an annoyance/complication factor for him (though he can occasionally exploit to easily trash something techish, when he wants to).  There really isn't any Agent, or Agenda -- no Guiding Hand -- that's helping JJ along here:  he's a wizard (Focused Practitioner) with a massive delusion, and his "hexing" overflows in this non-tech-hex way.

RE various takes on Precog / foreseeing / etc... the longer-range stuff is beyond him.  "Difficult to see... always in motion, is the future" says Yoda.  Immediate combat & reflexes stuff, sure.  I wasn't sure about reskinning Cassandra's Tears, but it seemed the "cleanest" way to do it; I zero-costed it, as per CT, because it does have that "someone notices you "reacting" before there was anything TO react-to..." factor (CT has various flavors of downside, apparently, including possible seizures); I wanted a more-potent downside for this, but wasn't coming up with one.  Maybe I just spend the point of refresh for the benefit, as Sanctaphrax suggested... though he's already a bit expensive-ish (I don't think he'd be as effective in-play as a "more-optimum build," and as the spent-refresh goes up, this discrepancy can only get worse...).

RE the "Lawbreaker" stunt & "Jedi Mind Trick":  he's definitely interfering in their choice, in the exercise of their free will.  The question really is -- and it's more Jedi-universe than Dresdenverse -- does the "Jedi Mind Trick" leave the victim with a choice?  Because JJ's ability will follow the Jedi Standard, even if it screws him up in the Dresdenverse...  If we look at the movies, it *APPEARS* that it's an all-or-nothing sort of thing.  If you're not immune (e.g. a Toydarian), then either you're very strong-willed (like Jabba) and essentially unaffected, or you're Just Folks (like most people) and succumb.  I can see the arguments both ways.  I do appreciate the problem in mental-Evoc attacks and 1-shot-takeout's!  Can you see any good way to model this as some sort of "only affects the weak-willed" (I'm less worried about attacks that can 1-shot the mook types)?  How about "umdshaman"'s aspect/tag notion?  Could he stack 2, even 3+ aspects, for a Big Tag?
 
@Sanctaphrax:  Why is it "unfair" to trade in the Focus-Slots for a Refinement?  I had thought it was a straight-up point-equivalent trade.  Did I mis-calculate, or do you see other issues?

Again:  thanks all!


- Steve, the g33k
 

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 10:14:03 PM »
RE various takes on Precog / foreseeing / etc... the longer-range stuff is beyond him.  "Difficult to see... always in motion, is the future" says Yoda.  Immediate combat & reflexes stuff, sure.  I wasn't sure about reskinning Cassandra's Tears, but it seemed the "cleanest" way to do it; I zero-costed it, as per CT, because it does have that "someone notices you "reacting" before there was anything TO react-to..." factor (CT has various flavors of downside, apparently, including possible seizures); I wanted a more-potent downside for this, but wasn't coming up with one.  Maybe I just spend the point of refresh for the benefit, as Sanctaphrax suggested... though he's already a bit expensive-ish (I don't think he'd be as effective in-play as a "more-optimum build," and as the spent-refresh goes up, this discrepancy can only get worse...).

As a general rule, narrative weaknesses like people noticing your odd reactions are best handled with Compels. Power drawbacks should usually be mechanical.

You ought to save a Refresh by ditching the unnecessary Alternate Hexing Power. Maybe another by ditching Lawbreaker. So I wouldn't worry too much about spending 1 Refresh.

That being said, increasing your initiative by one Speed tier does seem a little weak for a full Refresh. Might as well just spend 1 more and get full Supernatural Speed. Maybe Mythic initiative, or initiative between Supernatural and Mythic, would be appropriate.

On another note, I just realized that you don't need the "defend with Conviction" part of Jedi Parry at all. Your Athletics is just as good. So you can just take something Riposte-esque for half the Refresh cost.

Can you see any good way to model this as some sort of "only affects the weak-willed" (I'm less worried about attacks that can 1-shot the mook types)?  How about "umdshaman"'s aspect/tag notion?  Could he stack 2, even 3+ aspects, for a Big Tag?

I'd probably let you do it with maneuvers. Stacking tags like that isn't strictly RAW but I'd allow it.

Alternately, you can use Incite Emotion/Effect.

@Sanctaphrax:  Why is it "unfair" to trade in the Focus-Slots for a Refinement?  I had thought it was a straight-up point-equivalent trade.  Did I mis-calculate, or do you see other issues?

2 focus slots can get you +1 power and control, only on offensive or defensive spells and only if you have a specific item. Specializations get you the same benefit all the time on all spells.

They cost the same to buy with Refinement, but they're not interchangeable.

Offline umdshaman

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 11:24:08 PM »
How about "umdshaman"'s aspect/tag notion?
I'm not really sure what you're going for with this?  Putting an aspect on a person is not a straight 3-shift effect, but the power cost is instead determined by their resistance (per relevant skill determined by the GM). A compel (or invoke for effect) is essentially a conflict concession without the actual conflict taking place. In exchange for not having to have the conflict take place, you spend (or receive) a fate point/free tag. Of course, when you invoke for effect, the GM is free to say "that doesn't work here" in which case a good GM is probably gonna let you keep your free tag for use with a roll later.

Offline Taran

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2014, 04:07:41 AM »
RE "Guide My Hand" -- This is a spend-refresh item because it puts you in "the right place at the right time," for some essentially noble (and probably ineffable) "Cause."   It can "crack a case" when the character is stymied, bring in reinforcements when the character is overwhelmed, etc.  Although sometimes (often?) inconvenient and/or uncomfortable, it fundamentally works to the advantage of the character and/or their goals/wants/ethos/etc.   This has the "wrong feel" for Jedidiah; his "being on the spot" is really more of a "hexing" sort of event, a "complicate his life" with any upside being entirely incidental and without overarching Grand Plan benefits.  It replaces the tech-hex, which mostly just serves as an annoyance/complication factor for him (though he can occasionally exploit to easily trash something techish, when he wants to).  There really isn't any Agent, or Agenda -- no Guiding Hand -- that's helping JJ along here:  he's a wizard (Focused Practitioner) with a massive delusion, and his "hexing" overflows in this non-tech-hex way.

"I sense a disturbance in the force."

Offline g33k

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Re: Character, custom stunts, please comment: Dresdenverse "Jedi"
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2014, 06:41:16 AM »
As a general rule, narrative weaknesses like people noticing your odd reactions are best handled with Compels. Power drawbacks should usually be mechanical.
  Ahhhh.  Yes, that was a bit off.  Thanks!  Make an Aspect tied to this, maybe?

You ought to save a Refresh by ditching the unnecessary Alternate Hexing Power
  Hmm.  Maybe.  The thing is, this gives him various advantages, both vs. other wizard-types and vs. other supernatural beasties who THINK he's tech-challenged because of being a wizard.  But as you note above, this is more a Narrative than a Mechanical advantage... so, this is a job for Compels?

Maybe another by ditching Lawbreaker.
  I'm still on the fence about Lawbreaker.  I don't see a compelling argument on either side that "Jedi Mind Trick" certainly is (or certainly is NOT) a Lawbreaking action.  I don't actually WANT the point-spend, but I rather like how he thinks he's "doing the right thing," Jedi-style, but actually fnck'ing up, DF-style.  He's sliding, not ever knowing...

That being said, increasing your initiative by one Speed tier does seem a little weak for a full Refresh. Might as well just spend 1 more and get full Supernatural Speed. Maybe Mythic initiative, or initiative between Supernatural and Mythic, would be appropriate.
OK... this works for me.  Bumping his initiative will give him a bit more effect... and a Jedi Knight (or even an "apprentice"!) should be pretty darned effective!

On another note, I just realized that you don't need the "defend with Conviction" part of Jedi Parry at all. Your Athletics is just as good. So you can just take something Riposte-esque for half the Refresh cost.
His Conviction is +1 better than his Athletics, FWIW; but the extra Refesh is because:
  • it's a full Block (vs. all physical-effect attacks), not just a defend-against-one-attack
  • he gets (a *chance*) to riposte almost anything... even a blaster-bolt... even a FRIKKIN' BULLET!
;
I was actually wondering if it was too cheap...


OK, still massaging this one...


- Steve, the g33k
 
RE "Jedi Mind Trick":

I'd probably let you do it with maneuvers. Stacking tags like that isn't strictly RAW but I'd allow it.
Alternately, you can use Incite Emotion/Effect.

Hmmm.  Using an... an "Incite Jedi Mind Tricked" ?  Incite (Mental, Potent, At Range) would be -4 Refresh.  Maybe drop "At Range" because it's really only same-zone which under RAW is "melee range" (I think "Incite" defaults to needing touch, but the advantages/disadvantages of touch vs. voice may be close enough to need no point-adjust); that's still a -3; dropping "Potent" makes it -2, but pretty weak -- unlikely to get him out of a Sticky Situation with just a few phrases (like JMT is supposed to do)...  I'm liking the Maneuvers, stacking tags...

2 focus slots can get you +1 power and control, only on offensive or defensive spells and only if you have a specific item. Specializations get you the same benefit all the time on all spells.
They cost the same to buy with Refinement, but they're not interchangeable.
Hmmm.  I'm used to things with comparable point-cost being comparably-good, comparably-valuable.  Items (aside from the "lightsaber") aren't really a Jedi's schtick; and... well... he couldn't craft a magic-item to save his life:  he doesn't believe in that magical crap!  He's a Jedi, dammit!   ;)   So I just grabbed "the other side" of a Refinement.