Team UMO: a theory, for reference purposes

[Tami Seven]

Personally, I am not 100% convinced that it was really Lord Raith who killed Maggie Sr.  Sure, Ebenezer believes it, but then he may well be blinded by his prejudices -- automatically blaming the "drug dealing scum of a boyfriend" for her death.  We don't really know recipe is required for birthing a Starborn, but the fact that Elaine (known potential per WoJ) is also an orphan suggests to me that we can't rule out death during childbirth as being one of the ingredients. 

1) IMHO it is not impossible that Maggie killed herself deliberately to create a Starborn.

2) It is even possible that the mother needs to die with an entropy curse in order to create a Starborn (HHWB-Entropy curse connection in Blood Rites).  Maggie could well have done this to herself.

3) Note also that technically it was Maggie's Death Curse that killed her.

Still, to me this whole planning ahead to produce a Starborn, while I agree that it is a strong probability, has one anomaly -- Thomas. If the UMO Alliance, Lord Raith and the others all planned ahead to create a Starborn...Thomas should never have been born. I love Thomas to death, he's my favorite next to Harry, but his very existence makes no sense.

How do you suppose Mab reacted when Lea told her, "My Queen, I know we have been working with Margaret LeFay to produce a Starborn, however It seems she has not stuck to the plan."

Do you think Mab, or Odin would have been thrilled to learn Maggie was pregnant with a 'Bastard' child?

[forumghost]

Still, to me this whole planning ahead to produce a Starborn, while I agree that it is a strong probability, has one anomaly -- Thomas. If the UMO Alliance, Lord Raith and the others all planned ahead to create a Starborn...Thomas should never have been born. I love Thomas to death, he's my favorite next to Harry, but his very existence makes no sense.

His existence makes perfect sense. Lord Raith is an Alcoholic, and Maggie Sr is a bottle of Scotch. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.

[Tami Seven]

His existence makes perfect sense. Lord Raith is an Alcoholic, and Maggie Sr is a bottle of Scotch. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.

Lord Raith produces a child once every 20-30 years. He chooses the mothers carefully, for reasons of his own. Feeding and having sex, yes, he does or did that like an alcoholic downing the contents of a liquor store. But that is not the case for reproduction. LR doesn't have accidents, if he did Thomas would have far more half-sibilings than he does.

[forumghost]

Lord Raith produces a child once every 20-30 years. He chooses the mothers carefully, for reasons of his own. Feeding and having sex, yes, he does or did that like an alcoholic downing the contents of a liquor store. But that is not the case for reproduction. LR doesn't have accidents, if he did Thomas would have far more half-sibilings than he does.

Unless there is some Biological Limitation on the White courts reproduction. Which is my personal theory, because otherwise there would be a lot more of them.

[Tami Seven]

Unless there is some Biological Limitation on the White courts reproduction. Which is my personal theory, because otherwise there would be a lot more of them.

Consider how many women Thomas has been with just to feed, not to mention Justine. Do you think he takes the time to use 'Protection'? I'm fairly certain that WCV have a way of controlling when and with whom they reproduce.

[forumghost]

Consider how many women Thomas has been with just to feed, not to mention Justine. Do you think he takes the time to use 'Protection'? I'm fairly certain that WCV have a way of controlling when and with whom they reproduce.

And I think that they can't, but just have very low birth rates. Either way, I doubt we'll be getting an answer any time soon.

[Tami Seven]

And I think that they can't, but just have very low birth rates. Either way, I doubt we'll be getting an answer any time soon.

Consider that Lord Raith painted a portrait of every woman who ever gave him a child, male or female. Doesn't that imply a sense of pride or possession, of having chosen the best women to give him children?  I don't see him doing it if his children were all accidents and the mothers just random women. 

[knnn]

Consider that Lord Raith painted a portrait of every woman who ever gave him a child, male or female. Doesn't that imply a sense of pride or possession, of having chosen the best women to give him children?  I don't see him doing it if his children were all accidents and the mothers just random women.

The fact the he kills all his male offspring implies to me that at least some of it is up to chance.

[Second Aristh]

Neuro, when you get a chance, could you add exactly what you mean by the Swiss Army Chainsaw theory?

[forumghost]

Consider that Lord Raith painted a portrait of every woman who ever gave him a child, male or female. Doesn't that imply a sense of pride or possession, of having chosen the best women to give him children?  I don't see him doing it if his children were all accidents and the mothers just random women.

To me it implied him showing off his ability to "Get so many of dem Beeyachez Knocked up, yoh!".

Sort of like having a dick-measuring contest with the other White Court Vamps "Oh, look how much more Impotent then me you are, what a loser " So yeah, I'd say it was a matter of Pride/Ego. But it's about showing off how awesome he is. The Women are just Symbols of his 'Greatness'.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Still, to me this whole planning ahead to produce a Starborn, while I agree that it is a strong probability, has one anomaly -- Thomas. If the UMO Alliance, Lord Raith and the others all planned ahead to create a Starborn...Thomas should never have been born. I love Thomas to death, he's my favorite next to Harry, but his very existence makes no sense.

I read that as Maggie knowing Harry's going to have a very hard life ahead of him whether he succeeds or fails - she seems sorry for all the burdens she put on him in that message in BR - and left Thomas knowing Harry was his brother, and with a message in him to convince Harry when it came up.

Thomas is not a failed Starborn or an interference with the Starborn plan, to my mind.  He's planned - Maggie-planned, at least - support for the Starborn.  I see no reason to think the plan calls for the Starborn to be the only kid she has - if anything, a safe and healthy birth of a previous child is useful evidence that she can handle that part of it.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Unless there is some Biological Limitation on the White courts reproduction. Which is my personal theory, because otherwise there would be a lot more of them.

I see no need for it.  Lord R has the self-control not to let it show for thirty years that he's running on empty; he definitely has the self-control not to have kids he doesn't want.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Consider how many women Thomas has been with just to feed, not to mention Justine. Do you think he takes the time to use 'Protection'?

I think from what we have seen of Thomas feeding, it doesn't need to involve intercourse specifically.

[forumghost]

I see no need for it.  Lord R has the self-control not to let it show for thirty years that he's running on empty; he definitely has the self-control not to have kids he doesn't want.

That statement was more to do with Whites in general then LR specifically.

[peregrine]

Given what someone (either Bob or Thomas) says about how making a baby is about mixing a spirits to bring a new one into the world, and how the Wampires feed by mingling and then ripping their spirit back bringing with it some of the victim's spirit with it, I can easily see how they can somehow control the process of conception.