Golems Are Great

[Blk4ce]

Aight, I'll respect that. I like the idea of committing consequences to a separate body, though, and I may steal that bit if you don't mind.

Not sure what you mean by that. The idea here is that your minion appears when you complete the ritual and disappears when the duration runs out.

If you've bound a demon to serve you and you want to summon it from your house to the battlefield, then that'll probably be significantly easier than summoning it initially. But if the duration of the binding runs out and you want to summon them again, you'll have to do the summoning all over again.

Like Magicpockets said, those could be Declarations.

Alternately, they could not be thaumaturgy at all. You could handle a contract with a demon the same way you handle a contract with a mortal NPC.

I was thinking that if you summon a spirit, you bound it with a contract and then you let it go back to the nevernever, the following summonings would not need a complexity higher than your Lore, since you would cast the equivalent of opening a portal (placing an aspect).

A Golem is a construct (think Wardhound) and from an email exchange with Evil Hat, there should be some rules on making Constructs in the Paranet Papers.

From memory, the guidelines were to take the total point cost of all skills, stunts, and powers and total them.  That was the minimum number of shifts required for the ritual to create the construct.  Then if people want the construct to stick around, additional shifts are required for additional duration for the ritual.  Also keep in mind that going about making constructs like this could get unpleasant if the opponents wise up and manage to leave 'circle' traps scattered about.  A construct built via a ritual would essentially collapse if inside a magic circle someone else created.

-Cheers

You will have to explain that last part to me.

Also, what if you use crafting to make the construct and you use a ritual to bind the spirit, or craft a heart that works like a cpu?

[Todjaeger]

You will have to explain that last part to me.

Which one?  The one about leaving 'circle' traps, or calculating the complexity required for a construct?

Also, what if you use crafting to make the construct and you use a ritual to bind the spirit, or craft a heart that works like a cpu?

I'll go over the email exchange with Lenny with a bit more info once I have a chance.  Should be later on tonight.

-Cheers

[Blk4ce]

The circle traps. How do they work?

[Todjaeger]

The circle traps. How do they work?

The circle traps can work a couple of different ways, depending on the circumstances.  Depending on what sort of trouble my players are expecting, one or more of them will draw a circle, or several circles, as they pass through an area.  In one instance, they were exploring a storm drain system looking for a troll.  At regular intervals and at each tunnel junction, a character drew a circle.  When one of them later encountered a pack of malks in the tunnel and had to flee, the player was able to activate one of the pre-drawn circles and the malks couldn't cross into the circle.

By the same token, a pre-drawn circle can be left waiting for a Golem or other construct to enter into the circle, then a mortal outside the circle can activate it to either trap the construct or cause it to dissipate.

Depending on how a particular group handles magic, an Alchemist could even craft potions to activate and boost the effectiveness of pre-drawn circles.

[Blk4ce]

So they work like ward traps. But how would the construct dissipate if it isn't made of ectoplasm?

[Todjaeger]

So they work like ward traps. But how would the construct dissipate if it isn't made of ectoplasm?

The material of the construct itself wouldn't dissipate most likely (ectoplasm and water being possible exceptions) but the spell energy powering the construct would be gone, returning the construct back to whatever normal, inanimate state the material usually has.  A Wardhound for instance would become a stone statue of a Tibetan temple dog.

[Braincandy]

The material of the construct itself wouldn't dissipate most likely (ectoplasm and water being possible exceptions) but the spell energy powering the construct would be gone, returning the construct back to whatever normal, inanimate state the material usually has.  A Wardhound for instance would become a stone statue of a Tibetan temple dog.

That would depend on how the construct was made I think. If it has a body made of real material and is driven by a bound spirit, It wouldn't go inert in a magic circle, it would trap the spirit and it's body with it.

[Todjaeger]

That would depend on how the construct was made I think. If it has a body made of real material and is driven by a bound spirit, It wouldn't go inert in a magic circle, it would trap the spirit and it's body with it.

I respectfully disagree.  If the spirit was a bound spirit, the Circle would break the binding for the spirit.  The circle would still contain the spirit, or if might immediately be forced into the Nevernever (depends on the spirit). 

From the events in Turn Coat:

(click to show/hide)

When Harry first encountered Binder and his horde of summoned minions, Molly created and empowered a large Circle, which immediately made all of Binder's summoned and bound minions go away.  Molly's Circle broke both the binding cast by Binder, as well as the magic allowing the summoned spirits to create and animate bodies using ectoplasm.

[Blk4ce]

I respectfully disagree.  If the spirit was a bound spirit, the Circle would break the binding for the spirit.  The circle would still contain the spirit, or if might immediately be forced into the Nevernever (depends on the spirit). 

From the events in Turn Coat:

(click to show/hide)

When Harry first encountered Binder and his horde of summoned minions, Molly created and empowered a large Circle, which immediately made all of Binder's summoned and bound minions go away.  Molly's Circle broke both the binding cast by Binder, as well as the magic allowing the summoned spirits to create and animate bodies using ectoplasm.

But that was a construct made of ectoplasm. Braincandy talks about earthly materials. Which is the point of a golem. If you create an ectoplasmic construct, that's just summoning and binding.

By the way, why does ectoplasm melts if you trap a construct in a circle? Can you explain it, please?

[Braincandy]

But that was a construct made of ectoplasm. Braincandy talks about earthly materials. Which is the point of a golem. If you create an ectoplasmic construct, that's just summoning and binding.

By the way, why does ectoplasm melts if you trap a construct in a circle? Can you explain it, please?

He's right about the ectoplasm melting. It's because it's material ripped right from the nevernever. The circle breaks it's link and it melts. That's why I specifically mentioned a construct made of an actual real world materiel, like iron or stone. A magic circle wouldn't destroy that body, the spirit would still have it's vessel but it may well be trapped in the circle.

[Blk4ce]

Didn't know about the link. Thanks.

[Haru]

I usually try to model anything that's a permanent part of the character concept as a power in one form or another. I would do it like that here, too. That basically means, that any power the golem is supposed to have has to appear on the characters sheet and has to be paid by his refresh.

Let's say we want to have a pretty simple character. Just the guy who's building and controlling the golem, and the golem itself. Let's say a clay golem at the moment.

It would look something like this:
Feet in the Water (6 Refresh)
High Concept: Golem Master

Powers:
Beast Change [-1]
Human Form [+1]
 - inhuman Strength [-2]
 - inhuman Toughness [-2]
 - Living Dead [-1]

Skills:
Summoner:
+4 Craftsmanship, Resources
+3 Lore, Scholarship
+2 Guns, Contacts
+1 Athletics, Investigation

Golem:
+4 Might, Fists
+3 Athletics, Endurance
+2 Intimidation, Alertness
+1 Survival, Conviction


So what's actually happening? I know it looks like the golem master is turning into the golem from the powers I gave him, but that doesn't have to be the case. It's just a matter of interpretation. The character concept hinges on 2 individuals, the golem and the master, so those two are always going to be in the scene, unless the master can't take the golem with him. In the scene, the master can either take his action, or he can go into "command mode" and order his golem around to do stuff. He can't have 2 actions, one for his golem and one for himself, so he won't break the action economy. Changing between the states is a supplemental action, as it would be for a shapeshifter.
Attacking the character is a bit weird, as you could, for example, attack the master while he is in golem mode, and he shouldn't be able to defend himself. But he can, by ordering his golem around. If the golem is too far away to do so, that's a great option for compels.

Living dead basically represents the fact that the golem, if it takes any damage, can't heal, it has to be repaired using craft.

If you want to be a bit more flexible, you can take modular abilities instead of fixed powers. You would then either have a number of golems prepared in your workshop, or you can have the power to transform your one golem on the fly. If you go for the workshop option, I'd probably grant you a rebate of +1 refresh, because you don't always have access to your stuff.

[narphoenix]

I think the golem in the above would actually be better modeled with the Projection power (probably with Skilled Projection).

[Haru]

I'm not familiar with that power.

[Todjaeger]

He's right about the ectoplasm melting. It's because it's material ripped right from the nevernever. The circle breaks it's link and it melts. That's why I specifically mentioned a construct made of an actual real world materiel, like iron or stone. A magic circle wouldn't destroy that body, the spirit would still have it's vessel but it may well be trapped in the circle.

The body, vessel, or 'normal' matter or material would indeed remain.  Any active rituals involved in the golem however would be cut off and stopped by the circle, since there is no longer access to any magic/energy from outside the circle.