how does sponsered magic work

[potestas]

I've been trying to wrap my mind around the benefits of sponsored magic if you already have evocation and thaumaturgy. How does it work beyond theme. I don't see why anyone would spend the points better to grab inhuman speed or toughness. Can someone explain how it can help out.

[blackstaff67]

Sponsored Magic can give your magic an 'oomph' that it may otherwise be lacking vs certain creatures (Summer magic very good vs Winter Fae and vice versa), allow to cast thaumaturgy at evocation speed, increase your magic for certain themes (Hellfire: Good at burning anything), give you an edge against the Forces of Darkness (ch. for trademark or copyright) with Soulfire, or (arguably) even allow you to break the Law of Magic without incurring Lawbreaker Stunt.  It'll do this...for a price.

[potestas]

how do you apply it in game?

[Taran]

I'm playing a Soul-fire wielding character now.

- I needed to block some enemies from getting through a door-way while I did a short ritual.  Blocks only last 1 exchange.  Instead, I did a 5 shift ward with the speed of evocation.

- Holy damage/down-grading the toughness of any creature

In general:

- Thematic casting lets you do things that you might not normally be able to do.  Summer magic causing plants to grow...

- Instead of taking a consequence for casting, you can take a point of sponsored debt.  Or increase your control rolls by taking debt instead of invoking an aspect.

- Hellfire gives you a +1 to power.  So more powerful spells as a base. (you still need to control it).

[Magicpockets]

Regarding the canon Sponsored Magics:
-Summer Magic: Reduce Winter toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Biomancy at Evocation speed
-Winter Magic: Reduce Summer toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Entropomancy at Evocation speed
-Hellfire: +1 Stress bonus for everything that deals stress, bypass Immunity to mortal magic
-Kemmlerian Necromancy: various Rituals at Evocation speed, free specializations that stack on top of the pyramid, use specialization bonuses for Evocation with proper justification
-Soulfire: Reduce all toughness, satisfy holy catch, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, all Thaumaturgy at Evocation speed with proper narrative justification.

[Braincandy]

Regarding the canon Sponsored Magics:
-Summer Magic: Reduce Winter toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Biomancy at Evocation speed
-Winter Magic: Reduce Summer toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Entropomancy at Evocation speed
-Hellfire: +1 Stress bonus for everything that deals stress, bypass Immunity to mortal magic
-Kemmlerian Necromancy: various Rituals at Evocation speed, free specializations that stack on top of the pyramid, use specialization bonuses for Evocation with proper justification
-Soulfire: Reduce all toughness, satisfy holy catch, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, all Thaumaturgy at Evocation speed with proper narrative justification.

That part there I did not know. The description is the book is incredible vague. I took Soulfire strictly for the ability to pierce supernatural toughness and for flavor. That makes it much more awesome.

[potestas]

That part there I did not know. The description is the book is incredible vague. I took Soulfire strictly for the ability to pierce supernatural toughness and for flavor. That makes it much more awesome.

that's why I asked the descriptions are vague, that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game. So what I find in games like this is a lot of house rules to clarify things and prevent Omni characters. I almost think some modern version of D&D d20 would almost be better setting for Dresden world.

[HumAnnoyd]

that's why I asked the descriptions are vague, that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game. So what I find in games like this is a lot of house rules to clarify things and prevent Omni characters. I almost think some modern version of D&D d20 would almost be better setting for Dresden world.

I couldn't disagree more.  I have been running/playing DFRPG for the last 3+ years and I am totally in love with it.  I can't imagine trying to use any d20 class and level game to play it.  Well, maybe M&M but that is a very different kind of d20 and I don't think it would capture the world of Dresden as well as FATE does.  But different strokes and all of that. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Ugh, no. D&D D20 is a deeply flawed system.

There's vagueness in the rulebook, but none of it stems from not having enough rules. Most of it comes from overly complex writing.

[Braincandy]

that's why I asked the descriptions are vague, that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game. So what I find in games like this is a lot of house rules to clarify things and prevent Omni characters. I almost think some modern version of D&D d20 would almost be better setting for Dresden world.

Umm...no. At no point was I suggesting that either. I've played a LOT of D20 and I do like it, but I like this system precisely because it is so different.  D20 tried to be a light combat sim while this is more of a storytelling aid.

Soulfire is the only really vague thing and everyone knows why that is. It is still, even now, a largely undefined commodity in the books and therefore nearly impossible to stat in the game. I suspect that we will get a bit more definition to Soulfire in the new book, running around with the Denarians makes it likely that Harry's Soulfire will be a topic of conversation.

[Leeder]

that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game.

Different groups play different games. One group needs strict rules to justify every bit of ununderstanding in the corebook, and another group does not care for the rules, entrusting mechanics to their GM. I have played a D20 Modern urban fantasy game, CWoD crossover chronicle and now a DFRPG campaign, and every game from the list provides entirely different experience and feelings.

[Taran]

I don't think soulfire is the only one that can do evo-thaum.

All sponsored magic can do that as long as it fits the theme.

[Cadd]

All sponsored magic can do one area of thaumaturgy with evocations speed; soulfire can do any thaumaturgy at evocation speed.

[Quantus]

With commensurate cost?

[blackstaff67]

Umm...no. At no point was I suggesting that either. I've played a LOT of D20 and I do like it, but I like this system precisely because it is so different.  D20 tried to be a light combat sim while this is more of a storytelling aid.

Soulfire is the only really vague thing and everyone knows why that is. It is still, even now, a largely undefined commodity in the books and therefore nearly impossible to stat in the game. I suspect that we will get a bit more definition to Soulfire in the new book, running around with the Denarians makes it likely that Harry's Soulfire will be a topic of conversation.

Denarians and Harry running around in Hell.  I think I'll put money on that.