Magic and Money

[McNulty]

Other than high morals, what stops wizards and other magic users concoct some magic-infused get rich schemes?

[Haru]

Not only morals, but the fear of being scrutinized or become otherwise noticeable, just because they have money. On the other hand, I think the White Council itself has quite a lot of money.

But remember that money for a wizard isn't necessarily what it would be for us. In the world of a wizard, the currency is favors and power, not money. So instead of morals, it might simply be disinterest in mundane currency.

[Taran]

"making" money is lots of work, I imagine.  I mean, I'm sure they could make gold n' stuff, but who's going to buy it?  So there's more to it than just transmuting coal into diamonds.

I imagine, though, that there are lots of rich Wizards.  I mean, just using divination to make good investment choices seems like a no-brainer - especially when you live for 300 years.

As Haru said, though, rituals often come with strings attached.  The amount of money you pour into a ritual might not make it economical and if you want to save money on a ritual, you might have to spend your currency in "favours" which may be even more costly.

[Sanctaphrax]

Oh, yay. An excuse to link to an excellent old thread.

That aside...

Any given method of getting rich will have potential problems, but overall I think Wizards probably have a pretty easy time getting money. Some might run into (game-able) trouble, but the majority can probably become moderately rich just by putting in a bit of time and effort.

[Hick Jr]

A theoretical ritual I envisioned for my character in TSDC is a skill-replacing Ritual, replacing a Resources roll, that basically just takes advantage of the fact that his Sponsored Magic lets him play around with chemical bonds and basically create a permanent ball of extremely magical gold out of thin air. When I say "ball", I mean like "softball". 

I think that comes out to several hundred thousand dollars worth. I might be lowballing it.

[Taran]

Oh, yay. An excuse to link to an excellent old thread.

Ha, ha...I like it!

[McNulty]

Thanks for the link to that older thread (as you know the search function is often useless). Many of the get rich schemes thwarted in there seemed to be by notion that someone more powerful is already doing it..

My original thought was something more subtle than turning lead into gold.. a little nudge here and there to smooth things out for you, depending on the scheme.

[blackstaff67]

Who says magic can't make you rich?

Quite often in game when I make a Resources roll, I'd either invoke my Aspect "Duba's Tubas & More" or my High Concept "Polish Sorcerer From Chicago", it's just a matter of justifying it to the GM (either he really had a good week for the store or he used his magic to find buried/lost coins/treasure somewhere or was briefly hired by a wealthy client). 

Now if by rich you mean "having Resources greater than 1 in the game", then yeah, you'd probably be correct.  I envision wizards as people who, if lacking money, opt more for the invoke Aspect to improve things in the short run instead of seeking out long-term wealth--which is why the wealthy wizards you see are a LOT older than Harry.  Of course, when you have the elements at your command combined with a vastly increased lifespan and health to boot, money concerns go out the window unless you have a large family.  Again, invoke. 

[Taran]

If you use the Workspaces rule in Resources, most wizards need fairly high resource skill to do a lot of their arcane Lore, unless they have access to other libraries or contacts.

[Locnil]

Fluff-wise, I think the biggest limitation is that magic is insanely hard to do in the DV, we just don't see much of it because Harry is world-class in that area. (Just like Einstein probably didn't think thermonuclear physics was that difficult, even if he was never an expert in it). So while there are a lot of ways magic can get you rich, even without breaking the laws (my favourite, though not the most efficient, is conjuring a fuckton of good booze then selling it as bootleg stuff on the cheap), the fact is most practitioners likely aren't good enough to take advantage of it that way.

[Sanctaphrax]

For the most part I agree, but I think Einstein found physics hard. As he said...

“Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.”

Generally speaking, the better you are at math (or a related subject) the harder it is. Every time you learn something, it makes you aware of more stuff that you don't know.

[Locnil]

Yeah, that's why I added the qualifier there - I am vaguely aware that Einstein was inept at some fields of academic study.

It gets harder the further you go up, yes. And geniuses (Genii? Fuck it, this is English, not Latin) go pretty high up. But I don't think he had a problem with what most others had a problem with - that was what I was referring to.

[g33k]

<heh>  Over in the Ars Magica rpg community, the same debate comes up regularly. 

There are plenty of ways that one could get wealthy relatively quickly (in either game-universe).  In the Dresdenverse, the key catch (it seems to me) is that the Universe itself is a moral place.  You get Lawbreaker Stunts even if the WCouncil has no idea you've done anything wrong.  And if you want to get rich via magic... well, you have to really believe.  You have to take one of the fundamental creative forces of the universe, and use it for something as banal and petty as getting wealthy... and really believe that this is the right thing to do. 

That's... pretty pathetic, morally speaking. 

The older you get (in general, I know there are exceptions) the more conservative you get.  The Council is grotesquely rich because they have invested -- conservatively, but consistently -- for a very VERY VERY LONG TIME.  The only reason they don't own the whole world is that they aren't the only investors with the same sort of continuity & track record.  Given Salic Law and standard mortal inheritance, I'm sure that there are "wizarding families" (to use something from the Other Harry) who are also quite wealthy, albeit not on WCouncil scope.

Given how long-lived wizards tend to be, I expect that mundane methods of building wealth -- conservative, long-range investment strategies -- probably suffice, even for individuals who aren't inheriting from generations of wizards before them...

However, if a player wants to GetRichQuick(tm), remind them that it's easy:  just spend their advancement points on Resources, maybe grabbing a Resources Stunt to enhance matters.  If they do *NOT* buy the Resources, then you're afraid -- as GM -- that Something Will Happen to their GRQ scheme, and "somehow" they won't have the benefits that high Resources gives them.  If they want stories that lead to improved Resources, go for it!  Possibly even handing out the Resources *AS* the reward, not as points for them to spend on Resources.

[Magicpockets]

Mechnically speaking: Either take enough ranks in the Resources skill or take a stunt that let's you substitute the appropriate trapping of Resources with another skill. E.g. "Philosopher's Stone" that allows you to use Lore for the "Buying stuff" trapping.

[Taran]

There are plenty of ways that one could get wealthy relatively quickly (in either game-universe).  In the Dresdenverse, the key catch (it seems to me) is that the Universe itself is a moral place.  You get Lawbreaker Stunts even if the WCouncil has no idea you've done anything wrong.  And if you want to get rich via magic... well, you have to really believe.  You have to take one of the fundamental creative forces of the universe, and use it for something as banal and petty as getting wealthy... and really believe that this is the right thing to do. 

That's... pretty pathetic, morally speaking. 

I don't believe this at all.  Not everyone who want to make money is morally pathetic.  You don't want money?

There are tonnes of jobs where having magic would be a huge leg-up.  Most people feel the job they do is making some contribution to society.  Lots of people get some kind of satisfaction from their jobs and don't feel they are morally corrupt.  In fact, it's just the opposite.

Let's look at finding precious metals.  I come from a mining area and people make good money as contractors finding precious metals as well as doing environmental impact assessments etc...

Being a terromancer and doing geomantic divinations would be a HUGE advantage as a contractor.  You'd still need to do all the science stuff but you could probably do much of the leg-work from your lab.  Or save the company 1000's of dollars because you can move through the Ways instead of taking an airplane into the remote areas where lots of the jobs get done.

Mechnically speaking: Either take enough ranks in the Resources skill or take a stunt that let's you substitute the appropriate trapping of Resources with another skill. E.g. "Philosopher's Stone" that allows you to use Lore for the "Buying stuff" trapping.

Mechanically, this is a good way to do it.