Author Topic: Combat uses for the Might skill.  (Read 1815 times)

Offline Leeder

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
    • Vancouver Files Campaign
Combat uses for the Might skill.
« on: August 29, 2013, 12:55:11 PM »
One my player has a character. Lycanthrope, heavily modified by me in order to provide slightly competent character template. The modifications include other conditions for embracing superabilities (rage and anger) and removal of the Pack Instinct. So it costs the same value, but it is playable all over the time, not only during 5 days in a month.

The player had been playing social characters and healers for 3 or 4 years before Dreasden game, and all the playing group suggested her to change the type of characters. So she have chosen barbarian type - a lycanthrope, - and maxed Might and relative skills. With Superb (+5) Might she can lift and drag small cars without rolling the dice (5 Might and +3 by Inhuman Strength).

Naturally, she wants to use the Might skill in battle. I managed to clarify that if she wants to gain a damage bonus to a straight punch, she must take a stunt like Lethal Weapon, but with prerequisite "while your Might is higher then your Fists". Okay, but whe wants to throw things at her opponents with the supernatural force. Whatever, I said, take a stunt like the previous one, but on Weapons. But there where I failed.

I permitted her to make a Might attack when she throwing BIG and DANGEROUS things like motorcycles and so on, or simply smashing enemies with them. But with a condition, that she needs to roll the result at least equat the difficulty of lifting it. So motorcycle is 7, and she lifts it with a -1 result. And it happened somehow that her enemies must dodge the Legendary (+8) attacks! It sounded great and good (if Weapons trowing attacks need aim to be mortally dangerous, heavy objects need only a vague direction and great might), but after the first fight I've found that these attacks are greatly unbalanced. She can find improvised weapons almost anywhere in the urban environment of the city, and that means she always could use Might for making attacks. I treated such Improvised weapons less dangerous then regular ones (so motorcycle has only Weapon: 2), but dodging it hadn't became any simplier.

Help me out with this nasty issue, please. I don't want to deprive her from using her best skill in combat, but now it is very unbalanced IMHO.

I see some ways to resolve the issue:

1) Force the player to take a stunt, adding the new trapping "can use the skill to throw items in battle". Does not solve the Legendary attack issue.

2) Remove the bonus from Inhuman Strength for the attack. Illogical and deny from that kind of action totally. But do solve the Legendary attack issue.

3) Add the Inhuman bonus to lifting check, but not to attack roll. Just Superb (+5) attack with a heavy item. Maybe even remove the lifting check entirely, assuming that Inhuman Strength allow her to lift such heavy stuff.

4) Forget about Might attacks, just modify Weapons attack with Might in the case of heavy throwing weapons. Don't like it.

5) Something else?

Offline PirateJack

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1843
    • View Profile
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 01:17:22 PM »
I've had this same problem and there aren't many decent ways of adjudicating it. I went through supplementary Might rolls, using Might to throw (with a stunt), to finally just having Might modifying Weapons (with the caveat of the heaviest thing he can lift being equal to his Might score). It's the only way I've been able to find that's both streamlined and mostly balanced.

My player has +5 Weapons and +2 Might, so with Inhuman Strength he'd be able to lift up to +5 worth of stuff (I've put that at as upper end bodybuilding, so around 130-150kg mark) and throw it in a single exchange. Any heavier and he'd have to spend a turn rolling Might.

Of course I'm running a full power campaign where the majority of the mooks have at least InStr or InSpe, so having Legendary rolls fairly often isn't so strange.
Quote from: JoeC
"Why are you banging your head against the wall?
'cause it feels sooooo good when I stop..."

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9863
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »
The lifting table pg: 321

Quote
Keep in mind that each level represents
what a character can lift by expending all
of his effort; he isn’t really going to be able to
move much more than a zone carrying something
that’s equal to his base Might. A character
can carry something two levels below his Might
for a short distance (allowing him to make a
sprint roll restricted by Might, with the item’s
difficulty as a border value). He can carry something
four levels below his Might with no real
penalty or can toss it a distance of one zone.
Something six levels below his Might could be
used as a thrown weapon

I've added Bolded and italics:

As you can see, this character can only throw something the size of a child.  So, somewhere between 40 and 80 lbs.  Not motorcycles.  She could throw something the size of an adult 1 zone...but that wouldn't be an attack against anyone.  I might let it be an attack against a person they are throwing 1 zone.  To attack with a motorcycle in melee she'd need at least Supernatural Str.

I wouldn't let the +3 to lifting add to the attack.  I say she uses her might (+5) to attack (as a stunt)...basically, she uses Might instead of weapons for the purposes of attacking  with objects.  This lets her attack in melee with, say, a street sign (weapon 3, I'd say) or throw said street sign like a javelin using her Might.  She's limited to what she can lift (as I quoted above).  The weapon value of stuff she throws would be up to GM and she'd add her Inhuman Strength value to those attacks.

So to summarize: Assuming they have a stunt to replace Weapons with Might, an item 6 levels lower than her carrying capacity can be used as a thrown weapon while an object 4 levels lower than their carrying capacity can be used as a melee weapon.  The total skill of the attack is the Might skill. (not Might + Lifting bonus)

I don't think this is much more powerful then, say, a character with a Weapons skill of +5, a str. Power + stunts weilding a claymore or having the "claws" power.

EDIT:  my math is bad.  @+8 lifting, she could throw a "most furniture or heavy set adults" (200-250lbs - they mention heavy-set adults, not morbidly obese adults) and use couches and similar objects as melee weapons (300-400lbs, I'd say).  It jumps from +3 to +7 and a motor-cycle is around 300-1000lbs depending on the type...

Edit 2:
Weapon damage. 
I would also limit how high weapon damage goes.  Even throwing a car (assuming you had a lifting of +14) I'd limit it to weapon 4 or 5.  Instead I'd let larger objects do spray attacks and, in very, very rare situations**, a zone attack to represent the size of the object taking more space and hitting more people.

**By invoking an appropriate character or scene aspect...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 03:02:55 PM by Taran »

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 03:43:54 PM »
I'm confused, is the player looking for some kind of bonus in addition to the +2 stress to any physical attack that Inhuman Strength gives?
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9863
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 03:52:54 PM »
I got the impression the character was throwing cars using the Might skill without having a stunt.  Typically, you use weapons to throw objects and it's restricted by Might and you can only throw objects 6 levels lower than your total carrying limit.

Also, re-reading:
Naturally, she wants to use the Might skill in battle. I managed to clarify that if she wants to gain a damage bonus to a straight punch, she must take a stunt like Lethal Weapon, but with prerequisite "while your Might is higher then your Fists".
This would simply be a fists attack and her Inhuman STR would give her a bonus to damage regardless of the level of Might.  As long as she hits with fists, she gets a bonus to damage.  Once again, she can use a stunt to replace Fists with Might and attack with her Might if she wants.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 03:55:56 PM by Taran »

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12405
    • View Profile
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 11:53:46 PM »
Are you letting her use her lifting/breaking bonus on attack rolls?

Because that's really not a good idea. Don't do that.

I suggest just having her take a stunt that lets her use Might instead of Weapons when wielding heavy objects as weapons. Even without the lifting/breaking bonus, that's fairly powerful.

Offline Leeder

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
    • Vancouver Files Campaign
Re: Combat uses for the Might skill.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 05:52:43 AM »
Thanks, I've got an idea.