Author Topic: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]  (Read 63729 times)

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
My bet/hope is that this is the book where we find out that MDwaKotC.

I know haters going to hate, but Make It So!

Offline cbmurphy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 589
    • View Profile
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

I am guessing that Nicodemus' target is a person, not a thing.  For a variation on a theme, I think he wishes to obtain a prior Archive.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

I think Mab twisted Nic's request, because I am certain Mab is aware that Harry has had some success twarting Nic in the past, as well as a lot of practice in turning Faerie obligations sideways, a la Gruff Doughnut Delivery.   Harry is her way to honor her obligation in letter and thwart it in spirit.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

Kincaid, because Nic's an ass.
Mavra, we've not seen her in a while.
+ your host of bads we have heard of by reputation or Harry will be introducing to us, either way
I suspect a member of the White Council of wizards, which will make Harry's new status a subject for their attention in the book after Skin Game.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?  9/10/13 an interview was published that answers the first half of this question.  (edit:  Sort of)  Those that guessed what he said in that interview (at least partially) have been logged by the curators, but this will probably go down as some kind of extra credit or something, so keep Predictin!  (edit:  And things might not be binary simple...)-Serack

Leaving this blank, since the answers are apparent'y already out there.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Sanya - Edited, had the name as "Sasha" prior
Murphy takes up a sword and keeps it this time
no idea

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Simple thwarting.  The debt to Nic is embarassing and otherwise irksome, and Harry is a perfect riposte.   In a way, it's just more devious than any other subterranean machination Mab could have in mind.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

Lash as a separate, sovereign entity to Lasciel.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Nic's real game has nothing to do with stealing anything from Hades - it is a distraction for causing more uproar in Winter Faerie.  Arctis Tor was test in concept, the real action happens at the Wall.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

Cowl is Judas Iscariot, the original Denarian and Nic's superior.
The Merlin was assassinated off scene by the Black Council, and Eb's been fingered for it and is himself personally on the warpath against whomever did it.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 


Harry belittles some member of the heist by likening them to Sammy Davis Jr. with respect to the Frank Sinatra movie.

Molly has a Galadriel-when-offered-the-ring moment.

Harry references the Great Muppet Caper, "He brought the paper towels!"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 09:39:49 PM by cbmurphy »
Malt does more than Milton can, to justify God's ways to man.

Offline Bwleon7

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 404
    • View Profile
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

They are going after Pandora's Box. The box contains the Spirit of Hope named Elpis. Nic wants it in order to destroy Elpis.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

In order to get Elpis out something of nearly equal power has to be put in. I believe Nic is planning to put Harry in so he can get Elpis out and destory her.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

One or two other Denarians maybe an outsider will be present, Summer might send someone, maybe Fix and/or Sarissa.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?  9/10/13 an interview was published that answers the first half of this question.  (edit:  Sort of)  Those that guessed what he said in that interview (at least partially) have been logged by the curators, but this will probably go down as some kind of extra credit or something, so keep Predictin!  (edit:  And things might not be binary simple...)-Serack

Micheal though not by Harry's choice. Micheal will originally be there to stop Harry due to him working with Nic. At some point Micheal we understand the stakes and will later redeem himself by taking Elpis' place in Pandora's Box.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

upon return with Elpis, Tessa and other Denarians that Nic had waiting will attack and Sanya, Murphy and a couple others ( Tomas, Molly and/or Lea) that Harry had in waiting will come to Harry's aid. Murphy and some other new person (Justine maybe) will wield swords along with Sanya to help Harry.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Elpis is the spirit of Hope. Upon release she might be able to increase the worlds hope to the point were people are harder to get infected by Nemesis. Or freeing Elpis will please Hephaestus (the one who created Pandora) and he will create weapons and Armor that are effective against Nemesis.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

Lash will return and be pulled out of Harry's head where she has been hiding while trying to form a body for herself. His headaches will be gone once she is no longer in his head and has a body of her own.  She will be an ally to Harry.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Someone is infected by Nemsis. Likely one of the other Denarians.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.
-Lash will return
-Justine will wield a sword
-Micheal will betray Harry then redeem himself.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. Here is my very wild guess


Since we are dealing with Greek mythology, at some point someone is going to ask if Harry is a god. Harry will say yes. When asked why he said yes he will refer to the wisdom of Winston. People will look at him in a confused manner and he will say something along the lines of "Winston.....Winston Zeddemore. Ghostbusters.....oh come on people are you telling me you guys really haven't seen Ghostbusters???"
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 12:29:46 PM by Bwleon7 »
“So,” he said. “Mab.”
I grunted vaguely in reply.
“You hit that,” Sanya said.
I did not look at him. My face felt red.
“You”—he scrunched up his nose, digging in his memory—“tapped that ass. Presumably, it was phat.”

Offline Serack

  • Special Collections Division
  • Posty McPostington
  • ****
  • Posts: 7745
  • WoJ Rock Star!
    • View Profile
The blurb for SG had some info on #1, and all answers that hit on what the blurb indicates as the target have been recorded before anyone could edit their answer to reflect its contents.

The Predict-a-thon had been locked to allow for this record to be made before anyone could edit their answers and is now unlocked.

Please share more theories about how Mab=Zargolep! -Serack


Oh, and please theories only, save discussion for other topics.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 10:36:18 PM by Serack »
DF WoJ Compilation
Green is my curator voice.
Name dropping "Serack" in a post /will/ draw my attention to it

*gnaws on the collar of his special issue Beta Foo long-sleeved jacket*

Offline kazimmoinuddin

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4366
    • View Profile
 I just realized something, there have been all these mentions of an ocean's elven vibe,a crack team of thieves for a heist, but the thing is, they dont simply rob a place by brute force, they do it by stealth, the mark never knows they have been played/robbed till the prize and the team are in the clear.
 According to the blurb,
(click to show/hide)
SO they cant just charge in, they need to get to the vault, with out the alarms going off at all, or at least til they are done. This seems to be tricky as this is the perfect place for some one to back stab the others. Do we think the vaults will be filled with a horde, or possibly a mystical safety deposit box? Can a mystical being like hades be played? He seems the type to declare bloody vengence.
 Also, it is believed murphy will be part of the team as harry's back up, but as an ex-cop and a member of a cop family, she will be really unhappy with being part of a heist crew.
 In the justice league unlimited cartoon, hades was said to have a huge magical library containing all magical secrets. WHile i doubt there is a library in that vault, the good stuff would be hidden in it. A compendium or a secret book of lore.
k moinuddin

Offline Maria

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
The Oceans eleven vibe is rather at odds with a team where everyone is on a different page. I am sure its something from Greek Myth. The golden fleece? Belt of Hyppolyta? I don't know.
I don't think Murphy will be the sidekick. She has been around  to a sickening amount. Besides, how does stealing coincide with upjolding the law? or doesn't she care if it isn't a mortal in Chicago? She has a weird idea of upholding the law anyhow, so who knows. Any cop that frames( granted evil) people for crimes they did not do, puts her boot in a door when the LAW says that talking to cops is strictly voluntary, as is allowing them into your home, files false police reports...so who knows. maybe its her. I HOPE not. I haven't liked her since before PG. PLEASE ANYONE BUT MURPHY.

Offline Orbweaver

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4570
  • Let the games begin.
    • View Profile
Ok. I'll give it a shot.

Personal theory:

1. Nicodemus, shortly before the heist leaves for Hades' vault, will attempt to thwart Harry's attempt at bringing a Knightly +1 with him. This is based on the premise that Harry asked for assistance from ONE person (and the Sword counts as additional assistance that was not agreed on in the terms of the deal with Mab, given that it and the person wielding it are essentially "borrowing" assistance from a third party). We get a new wielder as a result, as Harry's initial +1 is Murphy. The Sword can't be used to aid the Denarians in their schemes, even indirectly, so it won't be going with Harry's +1. This is just a wool-over-the-eyes maneuver, though... not because Nicodemus is concerned about the presence of the sword, but because he's stalling for time (possibly to run the clock out on Harry's parasite).

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

Both. Nicodemus agreed to taking Harry along for the ride far too quickly, and his only objection came when Harry whined about having a +1, causing Mab to make a "symmetry" comment in regards to the initial favor. While it was a slight twist on her part, Nicodemus was intentionally causing further delays to Mab's departure, and most definitely has a plan or two for Dresden up his black sleeves. I expect him to use Harry's new "cold iron" allergy against him at some point, and he's probably banking on some of Dresden's capabilities/powers being unintentionally (or possibly, intentionally) used against the wrong person. Like his +1. 

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

There is a possibility of 11 additional members. In terms of those with the skills, connections and capabilities to crack open a vault, my obvious vote goes to Kincaid. This one's right up his alley, and he's definitely looking for payback for the Shedd Incident, if he hasn't already taken it. A personal theory of mine is that we're going to see another White Council member on the team (and Harry's jaw will hit the floor when he sees who it is). Nicodemus is going to offer Harry a very cold little smile before he introduces them. "Dresden, because we all know you comport yourself with the utmost respect for secrecy and stealth, I've appointed you a babysitter. I suspect you know him as Arthur Langtry."

4. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Well. Sanya's almost a requirement, unless something happened to him between Changes and Cold Days that we aren't aware of. Murphy will have to either pass the Swords she has on to two someones, or take one up herself (which I note she has been heavily reluctant to do, although that could be for any number of reasons.) My WAG: She passes a Sword off to the guy with the best of intentions Jim was speaking about, but that still doesn't enable him to face the demons in Hades' realm.

5. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Mab rather blatantly showed an icy hostility towards Nicodemus, but took an oddly neutral tone towards Anduriel. This suggests to me that she may not, in fact, want Nicodemus killed (because she may suffer retribution from Anduriel at a delicate moment the next time it acquires a host). I think, rather, she pointed Harry at Nicodemus in a violent fashion because she wants Harry along for the ride when Nicodemus discovers the identity of the traitor who attacked Arctis Tor. (I also regard it as a certainty that Nicodemus will live to see book 20, in spite of pissing off Hades... he'll likely dump that responsibility straight onto the team he's created).

6. One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

One of them will break the Grail, rendering it useless to the rest of the team. This results in a free-for-all after all the trials and tribulations (and deaths) required just to get to the damned thing. In the ensuing squabble, Nicodemus will vanish with the item he was really after.

(Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

1. Lash has never been anything but a parasite, and reveals herself as such shortly before a solution is found to her 'problem'. Nicodemus and/or Hell are running a long con on Uriel in getting him to think that Harry is capable of manipulating or changing a Denarian's shadow.

2. We discover the literal existence of Amanda Beckitt's soul inside Hades' vault. Marcone is subsequently led to believe that Harry has somehow tampered with its return, which kicks off a war between the crime lord and Harry in book 16.

3. Murphy will be revealed to have had a Denarian shadow influencing her thoughts and actions for some time.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 08:04:58 AM by Orbweaver »
In a world of black, white, and grey's... I'd be bright freaking purple. Resident Female Forum Denarian.

Offline knnn

  • Special Collections Division
  • Posty McPostington
  • ****
  • Posts: 4946
    • View Profile
Hey Guys -- please read the following:

I realize a bunch of you have questions you've left unanswered "for future consideration".  I strongly urge you to fill in the blanks now.

There have already been two major sets of spoilers released since the OP, and my fellow curators have had to take steps to ensure those who predicted correctly get credit.

Unless something changes, I plan to lock the thread in the beginning of March, but I claim the right to lock it instantly if I feel things have been compromised.  Get your final answers in while you can.

You have been warned
DV Geek code:

DV knnn v1.2 YR4 FR3 BK++ RP+ JB+ TH WG+ CL(+) SW++++ BC- MC---(+) SH[Murphy+, Molly+]

Find out your Dresden Files "Purity" score: http://knnn.x10.mx/purity2/purity.html

Offline redwizard

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?  The blurb for SG had some info on this, and all answers that hit on what the blurb indicates as the target have been recorded before anyone could edit their answer to reflect its contents. -Serack

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use? Nicodemus has a specific plan with expectation of  Mab twisting the request. As far as the plan goes I see him needing most, if not all, of Harry’s abilities, especially Harry’s ability to think on his feet. It wouldn’t  be surprising to find out Nic wants Harry to carry out, or at a minimum plan, the intrusion on the mortal vault. He knows Harry will come up with something inventive with a high probability of success. I also think Nic is counting on Harry brining his allies along as well. It isn’t just Harry he wants, but the people Harry knows and counts on.
3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry? I think we can count on seeing some of the Nicodemus faction of the Nickleheads, as well as a couple of those who aren’t as close to him. Lasciel would be one, possibly with a new bearer. All concerned will be suspicious and waiting for the real party to start. Depending if Lasciel shows up with a new host that aspect would likely be trying for Harry because he would almost be guaranteed to be shocked and try to talk the holder into giving up the coin.

Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?  9/10/13 an interview was published that answers the first half of this question.  (edit:  Sort of)  Those that guessed what he said in that interview (at least partially) have been logged by the curators, but this will probably go down as some kind of extra credit or something, so keep Predictin!  (edit:  And things might not be binary simple...)-Serack     
I’ve mentioned before Nic is counting on all of Harry’s allies. At one point or another we are going to see Thomas, Butters, Andi in a break in (haha see what I did there.) role , possibly the alphas. 
5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?
Sanya will wander in and attach himself to Harry. He won’t be asked, but just be directed that way and Harry will accept his offer of help. Nic won’t like it, but will go along because Harry will insist Sanya is needed, what Harry will not say is only after Nic steals what he is really after and it is time to skin him alive. Murphy will wield Fid., but the sword of love will have a temporary wielder - not I think Michael he’ll come into it thinking he has to talk sense into Harry and and protect the temporary wielder - Charity. Michael will survive, but Charity won’t. 

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper? She wants him to steal what ever he really wants to, not what he has outright said he is after, but she doesn’t want him to keep it. I think Mab is running a game on Nic, she wants what he is really after possibly to pay back another debt or to bargain with a third party. I see it ultimately being of importance, possibly come the BAT. Mab also sees Nic as a dangerous being who could upset her plans she wants to neutralize him in the worst case, but best case is to make use of him because he is a dangerous being. She would be content with the fallen inside of Nic, but she would dearly love to have the combination of Nic and Anduriel working for her. I see it as something similar to her plans for Molly, the Mantle of Winter Lady wasn’t her first choice for Molly, but it was an acceptable outcome. Anduriel with a new host - one beholden to Mab and maybe even with something like a wizard’s lifespan would be a fine addition for her. I don’t think she would order Harry to take up the coin, but who knows who else she could con into it.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book? I think it is Lash. She will take over the new home Harry has constructed for Bob. Molly will ease the transition out of Harry and into her new existence.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out? We see a new host for Lasciel, but Harry won’t tumble to it until later in the book - at least he won’t let on he knows, but will figure it out early on and use it to get out alive and successful. Of course it will be revealed what Nic is really after - Harry joining with Nicodemus among other things - as well, then
Harry jumps it all off by clipping Didre(sp?) for her actions in SmF. I even think it possible for him to finish the job and put Nic on the ark for keeps as well, although he won’t actually be the one to do it. For that I have my money on Murphy pulling a Connor McCloud on him although I think it unlikely. Nicodemus will continue to try to recruit Harry, right up until the end both because it would be expected and because Nic STILL wants Harry on his team as evidenced by him accepting Harry’s services as payment for Mab’s debt.
9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.
We could find out who fixed LC. Here is my answer, taken from this post : http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,40467.30.html

I've never really cared much for the time traveling theories, especially where LC is concerned. I've posted before I think it was Lash and sub Harry who fixed it. Both had motive, neither of them wanted to be the confetti raining down on Chicago if the thing went boom, and the opportunity to fix it. Just before Harry uses LC to find Molly.

Lash starts messing with him, trying to convince him not to use LC. She says she wants him to take up Lasciel's coin, and she does. The thing about it is by this point she knows it won't happen then, if it ever does. She knows Harry well enough and is aware enough of the situation to realize a couple things. One, Harry doesn't have to have LC work in order to find Molly; a variation of a tracking spell would get the same results. Two, Harry using LC is just Harry showing off. Sub Harry knows this as well, and I think he has seen the flaw in the design. He might not know how to fix it, but Lash does. She can't actually do the work herself, but Sub Harry can. She distracts Harry while Sub Harry takes over the body and does the work fixing LC. Bob knows what is going on, and Sub Harry orders him to dummy up about how it got fixed.

Mab fixing could work as well, but I find that to be a stretch. She generally doesn't take such direct action, instead preferring to let some on she is testing (and that is exactly one thing she has going on in PG, she is testing Harry.) do on their own. True she sees Harry as important to her future plans. Her attitude is Boba Fett "He's no use to me dead." The thing about it, and I think Harry has mentioned this himself, she doesn't babysit. Could she have sent some one, yeah, she could have. I don't think Lea done the deed either, being a Sidhecicle would have made it kind of hard to pull off. Come to think of it depending on how involved Mab was in healing Lea - she was one of the frozen Sidhe Harry saw, she couldn't have fixed LC. 

Other characters seem less likely to me as well. First they would have to know LC existed in the first place, and I find it highly unlikely for that to have happened. Remember secrets are the Wizards heroin. Could they have been informed. Possible, but then again I don't see that as likely.

The only ones I see as having a more than enough motive and opportunity and the means to accomplish the task are Lash and Sub Harry. Lash distracts Harry while Sub Harry drives the bus.   

(Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 
Any moron with blood in his finger can empower a circle. It takes a wizard rain down fire.

Offline Romulan Cmdr

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 512
    • View Profile
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

Ive heard it’s the Holy Grail – this would fit with the previous attempt to have the Shroud.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?
Well lets face it, Harry has managed to mess up both Nic’s plans as well as his wife’s.  So who better to use than the enemy that’s confounded him before? (Also Vader syndrome is at work)  I bet Nic thinks he can still get Harry to take up the coin. There is no way for Nic to know that the Shadow ‘died’ despite what Harry told him. Also Harry best understands the Denarians interworkings so to Nic it makes sense.  Also crazy thought maybe its because soulfire will be needed for one part of the heist and Harry is the only one he knows who has it?

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?
Woot!  Well we got the standard suspects – the various Denarians. It would be interesting if Binder, Murphry or even one of Monoc’s people get added into this.


4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over? 
Methinks Uriel might interfere a bit. I think it d depend on the other skills needed.   Maybe someone from the White Council interferes?  Personally Andi might cause a problem since she is a kidnap magnet. Thought there is a fair chance it ll be Fix.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?
Sanya is a definite as he is the active wielder.  It would be interesting if Murphry finds a person for Excalibur because so fair its been F’s which has reacted best to her. Maybe Molly’s younger brother Daniel?   
6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?
There is still the insult of someone throwing Hellfire at Artics Tor. Remember that the same way the pixes’s actions were attributed to Harry since they were working for Harry.  Even if Nic wasn’t the one who threw the hellfire-he is responsible. That reckoning  is still awaiting a valid response. 

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?   
Well , Molly is going to have to do some mind magic to get the parasite out of Harry.  I am wondering if this is how air sprits of intellects are formed.  (like Bob.)  Lash is the obvious choice, but why would it bargain to not let Harry know?  I suspect there will be a twist to this.


8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

The Grail was an attempt to get all the main enemies out in the open,  Nic had some deal with the Former,  the former over extend themselves,  both Fae sides will come down on the Former and hopefully Cristos gets killed in the process. (ok I can wish cant I?)

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.
The original Merlin is one of those that’s in prison in the Island due to his having to make some super hard decisions and reaching a breaking point.
The Former are snagging people of magical talent so they can leach it from the ones they don’t make into turtle-necks.
Nic had a deal with the HWW Behind and HWW Before

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.
There will be Monty Python jokes.  Uriel will show up.    Mouse will get to talk again.

Offline Al-Hajj Bilal Ammar Jihad

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3919
    • View Profile
Hey Guys -- please read the following:

I realize a bunch of you have questions you've left unanswered "for future consideration".  I strongly urge you to fill in the blanks now.

There have already been two major sets of spoilers released since the OP, and my fellow curators have had to take steps to ensure those who predicted correctly get credit.

Unless something changes, I plan to lock the thread in the beginning of March, but I claim the right to lock it instantly if I feel things have been compromised.  Get your final answers in while you can.

You have been warned

Coupla questions K...

Where may the two major sets of spoilers be viewed, and where will those who get things right be given credit (when I assume will be sometime after release of SG).

Thanks,

Bilal
Come not between the Nazgul and his prey, or he will not slay thee in thy turn.  He will bear thee away to the Houses of Lamentation, beyond all Darkness, where thy living flesh shall be devoured and thy shriveled mind left naked before the Lidless Eye.

Offline TheCuriousFan

  • Special Collections Division
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 16609
    • View Profile
Coupla questions K...

Where may the two major sets of spoilers be viewed, and where will those who get things right be given credit (when I assume will be sometime after release of SG).

Thanks,

Bilal

The first would be the blurb for the book which can be found on the main website, the second would be the interview that confirmed who Harry will be taking with him on the trip.
Currently dealing with a backlog of games.

If you want me to type up a book quote or find a WoJ quote, send me a PM.

Rest in peace mdodd.

Offline Al-Hajj Bilal Ammar Jihad

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3919
    • View Profile
The first would be the blurb for the book which can be found on the main website, the second would be the interview that confirmed who Harry will be taking with him on the trip.

Haven't seen the latter.  Where might I find it?

And thanks, TCF...
Come not between the Nazgul and his prey, or he will not slay thee in thy turn.  He will bear thee away to the Houses of Lamentation, beyond all Darkness, where thy living flesh shall be devoured and thy shriveled mind left naked before the Lidless Eye.

Offline TheCuriousFan

  • Special Collections Division
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 16609
    • View Profile
Haven't seen the latter.  Where might I find it?

And thanks, TCF...

(click to show/hide)

Here you go.
Currently dealing with a backlog of games.

If you want me to type up a book quote or find a WoJ quote, send me a PM.

Rest in peace mdodd.

Offline Transkaren

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
If this is still open - and please note that I haven't read the rest of the posts, so if I crib someone's pet theory it's not my fault.

1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

-As stated in the question, asked and answered.  Except...  I don't think that's all he's planning to take.  Yes, the grail is the claimed target (and what a target it would be!), but this is NICODEMUS.  If he says the grail is his primary target, he's lying.  So - Harry's told he's going after the grail, they do recover the grail, but the actual target is going to be someone or something he can use to cleanse Nemesis from the Nickelheads, with tempting Harry being part of it as well.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

-He has a plan in place.  He needs Soulfire to get through something.  For extra credit, I'm going to go even further and say that there is a trap or device that projects a field that only an Angel or similarly powered being can access - in other words, it keeps out everything but souls.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

Members of the team:
-Nicodemus
-Nic's daughter
-Harry
-Murphy
-Listen
-Mavra
-Kincaid

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over? 

-Well, clearly the initial person question has been asked & answered.  As for who else gets involved?  Fix, as required by the mantles (this is a sanctioned Unseelie event), though I think his interference will come at the end*.  Similarly, I think Lea (who can track harry quite well across boundaries) will be there at the end.  Sanya will stumble in at the end*.  Most importantly?  Demonreach and Lash.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

-Murphy's, clearly.  Sanya will probably be present for the last part of the book - and, sad to say, I think he won't make it out alive.  His sword will be taken up by either Thomas or Harry himself.  Because really, if there's one thing Harry has it's Hope.  Thomas *might* take up Love this book, but I don't really see that happening until the BAT.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

-Both.  She doesn't want him getting the power of the Grail (simple thwarting), but she wants *Harry* to come away from this with the ability to remove Nemesis.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

-Lash is causing the headaches, and she will emerge during the book.  She will either take up residence in Bob's spare skull/home or Harry will carry her out of Hades and she will take Persephone's body (which is perfectly serviceable, aside from being brain-dead).

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

-First, Hades will be the "other side" of Demonreach - Demonreach is a prison for monsters, Hades is a prison for humans.  So when they exit, they exit to Demonreach.  Harry will then backstab Nic's people - Shagnasty becomes a prisoner almost right away.  Kincaid has been working for Murphy all along, to protect the two of them; Murphy doesn't help Harry; she can't, because he just betrayed Nic.  Nic manages to get free, but Deidre is taken down and imprisoned (alive).  In the *end - Nic wins, and gets away with everything.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

-Lash is the Parasite.  Not that WAG, so not taking credit.
-Demonreach and Hades (the region) align in terms of location, just on opposite sides of the reality barrier.
-Hades (himself) is a nice guy, and will actually be quite pleasant to Harry, especially after Harry returns the stolen items.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

Harry will go to the Carpenter's house for advice from Michael.  He's sitting down to dinner with his family - including his eldest daughter.  She hasn't revealed anything to them, and in order to fight the Mantle's influence she's decided to become much more "conforming".

The White Council have all but backed off from helping humanity in general.  Harry will, at the end of the book, stop by and say "hi".

*As noted above, Sanya will come in at the end of the heist.  That won't be the end of the book.  In the *real* end, Harry tracks down Nic and gets the grail *and* secondary item(s) back.