Lacuna's true nature (theory) [CD Spoilers]

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

   Yeah, except this moment with Mab was different, for a nanosecond she became vulnerable, what is more allowed Harry to see it..

Think about how that affects how he sees her.

Think about how that effect might serve her; she knows showing weakness to one of her peers is a flaw, but showing that kind of weakness to Harry, she probably knows will prompt sympathy.

Think about why she might have chosen to allow Harry to see that.

[DCarpenter]

Think about how that affects how he sees her.

Think about how that effect might serve her; she knows showing weakness to one of her peers is a flaw, but showing that kind of weakness to Harry, she probably knows will prompt sympathy.

Think about why she might have chosen to allow Harry to see that.

Harry has a weakness for women in distress.  Almost everyone knows this about him now.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again; it's going to get him killed.  It's rather quite surprising it hasn't already.  Certainly it's gotten him manipulated way too easily.  And Mab is probably one of the best manipulators we've seen so far.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Harry has a weakness for women in distress.  Almost everyone knows this about him now.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again; it's going to get him killed.  It's rather quite surprising it hasn't already.

If you count Maggie as a woman in distress, it kind of has.

[DCarpenter]

If you count Maggie as a woman in distress, it kind of has.

That's not what actually got him killed though, ironically.  A Fallen Angel lied to him, and he committed suicide.  It shouldn't have actually killed him.  It was one of the many close calls he's gotten himself into though.

[Mira]

Think about how that affects how he sees her.

Think about how that effect might serve her; she knows showing weakness to one of her peers is a flaw, but showing that kind of weakness to Harry, she probably knows will prompt sympathy.

Think about why she might have chosen to allow Harry to see that.

  Harry still knows it is Mab and not some poor damsel.  Mother tigers may have tender moments with their cubs, but it doesn't change what they are.  Even if he did as you say, Kringle's warning about her afterwards would disabuse him of any notion like that.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

  Harry still knows it is Mab and not some poor damsel.  Mother tigers may have tender moments with their cubs, but it doesn't change what they are.  Even if he did as you say, Kringle's warning about her afterwards would disabuse him of any notion like that.

Your first and last sentence there both require Harry to be rational and sensible rather than going with an emotional reaction.  This seems unlikely to me.

[Arjan]

Your first and last sentence there both require Harry to be rational and sensible rather than going with an emotional reaction.  This seems unlikely to me.

He is still vulnerable to it but not as vulnerable as he used to be.

But there is something else in this scene. Mostly Harry tells his story as he experienced it at that point in time but here he abandons this point of view and tells us that this was the only time Mab showed this kind of vulnerability to him ever. Here is an older, wiser and more experienced Harry speaking and I think we should take that seriously.

[Viktor]

Yah this is an odd issue that has some realatively odd implications.  Notice also that Jim has said that all fae are at least partially mortal:
 

And to muddy things up even more, Jim implied... Hmmm by my interpretation he implied that the being that wears the Santa Clause mantle is only fae when he is fulfilling that roll/wearing that mantle. 

Is Kringle Fae?
 

We also have this from the recent KC signing transcript:

I think a better question is... With the Winter Mantle, is Harry now part Fae? We don't know if it bestows longevity on the wielder, but it does give them a faes' weakness to iron/steel - see Harry & Fix getting hit with nails and losing their respective bonuses from Summer & Winter.

[kytheros]

I think a better question is... With the Winter Mantle, is Harry now part Fae? We don't know if it bestows longevity on the wielder, but it does give them a faes' weakness to iron/steel - see Harry & Fix getting hit with nails and losing their respective bonuses from Summer & Winter.

I'm unconvinced that they're inherently any more vulnerable to iron/steel than before the Mantles. My read on it was more that the iron blocked the Fae power from doing anything for them, thus dropping them back to where they'd be without the Mantle, which is a sudden shock to the system, especially the longer and more dependent/used the Mantle has been.
I suspect that the situation is more akin to that of Odin/Kringle - While actively wearing the Fae-origin Mantle, they've got Fae weaknesses and limits, but if they were to somehow learn how to not be actively wearing the Mantle while still possessing it, they would not have those weaknesses and limits.

Odin/Kringle is treated as Fae (for most purposes) while he has the Kringle Mantle active, but when he shuts it down to switch over to Odin, he is no longer treated as Fae, but he is always treated as Aesir.

I think an analogy would be ... psychoactive skins (from D&D3.xe, psionics) - you can have more than one on your skin, but only one is active/primary at a time. With mantles, you can have more than one, but only one is active/primary at a time, though with mantles you probably get some passive benefits for mantles that aren't currently active/primary.


As for Harry's longevity ... I doubt we'll ever see it, although Fix's predecessor (?Raoul?) was pretty old but apparently sufficiently fit that he could probably have beaten Slate had he not been bushwhacked. The Fae Knighthood Mantles may well increase longevity, but Harry's already a wizard - and a powerful one - so his natural lifespan was already substantially greater than his probable life expectancy (let's face it, he's never gonna be able to afford life insurance). I suspect that the Knighthood Mantles help keep their bearers physically fit and able longer, even if they don't actively extend lifespan, plus the whole gaining Fae magic may also have an effect similar to that of humans having magic, although that is purely speculative.
Most Knights are generally interchangeable/readily replaced, however, so I'm uncertain as to whether or not the Fae would care to invest the power to actively boost the Knights' lifespans beyond the passive effects inherent in enhanced physical fitness and health plus the magic channeling aspects. Besides, Knights aren't likely to die of old age anyways, and are probably fairly likely to die fairly young while in combat with someone or something.

[Mira]

Your first and last sentence there both require Harry to be rational and sensible rather than going with an emotional reaction.  This seems unlikely to me.

  Well, check out Jim's reading of the first four chapters of Skin Game.. Harry doesn't seem very sympathetic nor more cooperative with Mab than he was before Maeve was killed.  Mab actually has to blackmail him with impending death by parasite, his and his family and friends before he does cooperate..

[TheCuriousFan]

  Well, check out Jim's reading of the first four chapters of Skin Game.. *snip*

Please put a spoiler tag over those Skin Game spoilers.

[Mira]

Please put a spoiler tag over those Skin Game spoilers.

  Sorry about that, thought the spoiler tag in the heading was enough.

[Viktor]

I'm unconvinced that they're inherently any more vulnerable to iron/steel than before the Mantles. My read on it was more that the iron blocked the Fae power from doing anything for them, thus dropping them back to where they'd be without the Mantle, which is a sudden shock to the system, especially the longer and more dependent/used the Mantle has been.
I suspect that the situation is more akin to that of Odin/Kringle - While actively wearing the Fae-origin Mantle, they've got Fae weaknesses and limits, but if they were to somehow learn how to not be actively wearing the Mantle while still possessing it, they would not have those weaknesses and limits.

Odin/Kringle is treated as Fae (for most purposes) while he has the Kringle Mantle active, but when he shuts it down to switch over to Odin, he is no longer treated as Fae, but he is always treated as Aesir.

I think an analogy would be ... psychoactive skins (from D&D3.xe, psionics) - you can have more than one on your skin, but only one is active/primary at a time. With mantles, you can have more than one, but only one is active/primary at a time, though with mantles you probably get some passive benefits for mantles that aren't currently active/primary.


As for Harry's longevity ... I doubt we'll ever see it, although Fix's predecessor (?Raoul?) was pretty old but apparently sufficiently fit that he could probably have beaten Slate had he not been bushwhacked. The Fae Knighthood Mantles may well increase longevity, but Harry's already a wizard - and a powerful one - so his natural lifespan was already substantially greater than his probable life expectancy (let's face it, he's never gonna be able to afford life insurance). I suspect that the Knighthood Mantles help keep their bearers physically fit and able longer, even if they don't actively extend lifespan, plus the whole gaining Fae magic may also have an effect similar to that of humans having magic, although that is purely speculative.
Most Knights are generally interchangeable/readily replaced, however, so I'm uncertain as to whether or not the Fae would care to invest the power to actively boost the Knights' lifespans beyond the passive effects inherent in enhanced physical fitness and health plus the magic channeling aspects. Besides, Knights aren't likely to die of old age anyways, and are probably fairly likely to die fairly young while in combat with someone or something.

Well, yes. I don't think Iron/Steel is going to do to Harry/Fix what it would do to someone like Toot or a Gruff (Harry & fixs' wounds didn't burning at the touch of said metal).

Isn't that cutting the hair a bit fine though? For all intents and purposes, Harry does have Fae weaknesses now - when iron pierces his skin he is put into extreme pain, any pain he had is now magnified because Mab's "pain threshold" settings get temporarily set aside, and he finds it hard to even think. Yes he now knows that he can set aside the Mantle/Mask somehow like Kringle does, but until he does, it's part of him.

Therefore since he has Fae weaknesses, and he HAS to obey Mab's laws or the Mantle powers get withdrawn. He's part Fae, even if it wasn't something with which he was born. It's... like an infection I suppose.

[DCarpenter]

  Sorry about that, thought the spoiler tag in the heading was enough.

There's still no spoiler tag.  And the heading is for Cold Days.  You're post has spoilers for the beginning of Skin Games.  I'd really appreciate it if you refrain from that in the future.  Some of us like to wait to learn anything about the book until it actually comes out and we can actually read it.

[vultur]

Isn't that cutting the hair a bit fine though? For all intents and purposes, Harry does have Fae weaknesses now - when iron pierces his skin he is put into extreme pain, any pain he had is now magnified because Mab's "pain threshold" settings get temporarily set aside, and he finds it hard to even think.

I'm not sure it's quite the same thing. AIUI, iron piercing his skin causes extreme pain because of the puncture wound, not because Harry is burned by iron. If it weren't iron, his Winter Knight stuff would kick in and block the pain, but he's no more affected by being stabbed with iron than he was as a normal mortal wizard... I think (could be wrong though).

Just contact with iron doesn't affect him at all, while it does to a true Fae - to them it's "a poison, body and spirit".