Author Topic: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)  (Read 12292 times)

Offline knnn

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Offline The Deposed King

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 04:02:30 AM »
http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/424-what-makes-you-put-down-a-book

Having looked at the article I still know absolutely nothing about your thoughts on this subject.

So I am left with a great big question mark and wondering why I even bothered to look at the add/study????  (Is this a whole Master of Puppets moment?)




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Offline OZ

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 01:36:56 AM »
Are you asking what makes the rest of us put down a book? I can give you a list although probably nothing on it is absolute.
How do you know you have a good book?  It's 3am and you think "Just one more chapter!"

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 02:31:47 AM »
fwiw, my first choice is "a book that treats me like an idiot".

Examples would be depicting supposedly wise characters saying things that are blitheringly obvious and being reacted to as if they were wise, and books that keep telling me the same relevant facts over and over again to be sure I don't forget them.
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Offline OZ

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 06:37:41 AM »
Someone that is supposed to excel in an area and is instead less than competent will usually drive me from a book, for example a supposedly brilliant detective that continually overlooks obvious clues or an experienced soldier that continually takes unnecessary risks.
How do you know you have a good book?  It's 3am and you think "Just one more chapter!"

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 08:14:43 AM »
I hate what I might call 'set-up' characters.
Characters that are set-up to die, change things, etc.
If I can tell that then I get angry and put the book down.

Writer who hasn't done their research homework.

Cozy mystery writers who make out cops to be blithering idiots in order that
their heroines/heros can save the day.  I really hate this.

Writer who can't make up his/her mind about who a character will end up with romantically.
Decide already.

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 03:25:08 PM »
I hate what I might call 'set-up' characters.
Characters that are set-up to die, change things, etc.
If I can tell that then I get angry and put the book down.

I'm not sure I see what that's a distinction from, though.  I don't know that I can think of there being much point to characters who don't have some story function.

Quote
Writer who can't make up his/her mind about who a character will end up with romantically.
Decide already.

Writers whose characters never even consider "all of the above" as an answer to such dilemmas.  Considering it and ruling it out as not for them is one thing, but not acknowledging it possible is just infuriating.
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Offline Snowleopard

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 06:07:08 PM »
Re: The first one, Neuro.

Yes, all characters have functions but in this one book - it was so blatantly obvious that
a certain character was just being set up to be killed that it annoyed me - I guess because
she came off like a paper target.  No real depth to her.

Offline LizW65

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 11:15:03 PM »
One of the main things that will make me put down a book is overt preaching by an author--even if I happen to agree with it. I really dislike political/religious tracts masquerading as fiction.

As for supposedly intelligent characters behaving like idiots in service of the plot, it really depends on the skill of the author. In the right hands, it can be a lot of fun: one of the most entertaining series I've read recently features what pretty much amounts to a Parody Sue protagonist.
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Offline OZ

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2013, 05:29:00 AM »
I definitely agree about the preaching. Guaranteed to make me put the book down. The comic book industry has gotten particularly annoying in this respect. At least IMHO.

It is partly because of humor that I said none of the things I hate are absolutes.

I find it especially annoying when a character is set up to be especially sweet and charming just so that the villain can look nastier when they kill them.

How do you know you have a good book?  It's 3am and you think "Just one more chapter!"

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 02:23:36 PM »
One of the main things that will make me put down a book is overt preaching by an author--even if I happen to agree with it.

Mmm.  Preaching by an author, sometimes; preaching by a character that illustrates the character's perspectives and biases, I really like as a technique, and the less the character is aware of what the preaching gives away, the better.
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"What do you mean, Lawful Silly isn't a valid alignment?"

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Offline Aminar

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2013, 02:34:27 PM »
I've got one that started when I started writing.
Lack of conjunctions in ordinary narrative.  I know it was the style.  But ugh, it kills the flow.

And the most recent thing to kick me out of a book.(Won't name the book because spoilers.  Killing the perspective character(in a first person series) from the last X books and switching to his girlfriend after 1 awkward pointless chapter from her perspective.  Killed the whole series for me.  I haven't wanted to pick it back up since.  Even though I'm positive the other character comes back.

Offline OZ

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2013, 05:02:41 PM »
Mmm.  Preaching by an author, sometimes; preaching by a character that illustrates the character's perspectives and biases, I really like as a technique, and the less the character is aware of what the preaching gives away, the better.

To me some of this goes back to your earlier statement of "Don't treat me like an idiot." It depends a lot on the author's skill. In real life almost anyone that you talk to will have something that they feel strongly enough about that they will "preach" or push their views about it even if it's just the fact that they don't think anyone else should "preach" or push his or her views on them. If this is all the author is showing then I'm fine with that. If it's the main character, especially in a first person POV, then it rapidly gets annoying. If it's someone that the story sets up as wise and/or "someone that should be listened to" and they are pushing a certain viewpoint, then it begins to feel that the author is pushing that viewpoint. This will make me put a book down.

Quote
And the most recent thing to kick me out of a book.(Won't name the book because spoilers.  Killing the perspective character(in a first person series) from the last X books and switching to his girlfriend after 1 awkward pointless chapter from her perspective.  Killed the whole series for me.  I haven't wanted to pick it back up since.  Even though I'm positive the other character comes back.

I find this very annoying. I started one series about a woman from our world that finds herself transported to another reality where she has magical powers. I know this is one of the oldest tropes out there but I still enjoy it when it's well done and this was well done. In the fourth book in the series, the main character switches to someone that had been a minor character up until then. It is revealed that the previous protagonist had died, off camera, between books three and four. It was not a gimmick. She was dead and never came back. I never finished the series.
How do you know you have a good book?  It's 3am and you think "Just one more chapter!"

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 03:06:29 AM »
To me some of this goes back to your earlier statement of "Don't treat me like an idiot." It depends a lot on the author's skill. In real life almost anyone that you talk to will have something that they feel strongly enough about that they will "preach" or push their views about it even if it's just the fact that they don't think anyone else should "preach" or push his or her views on them. If this is all the author is showing then I'm fine with that. If it's the main character, especially in a first person POV, then it rapidly gets annoying.

The thing about first-person POV is there seems to be a huge degree of implicit sympathy that comes with it, and if you want to show your first-person protagonist as flawed, particularly flawed in ways they don't realise themselves, you either have to make those flaws so colossal they essentially define the character (as for example Jeff Lindsey's Dexter), or you risk people not seeing them (as witness, well, any of countless arguments I have had in the on-topic part of the forum in which I think JB is illustrating something about Harry's flaws and weaknesses, and other forumgoers disagree from perspectives based to some extent on assuming JB intends Harry to be sympathetic.)

Quote
If it's someone that the story sets up as wise and/or "someone that should be listened to" and they are pushing a certain viewpoint, then it begins to feel that the author is pushing that viewpoint.

How long do you give an author to illustrate that they are subverting that before putting the book down ?

Does it help any to suggest that a rant might not be intended seriously if, say, a first-person character is visibly drunk when they go off on it ?

Quote
I find this very annoying. I started one series about a woman from our world that finds herself transported to another reality where she has magical powers. I know this is one of the oldest tropes out there but I still enjoy it when it's well done and this was well done. In the fourth book in the series, the main character switches to someone that had been a minor character up until then. It is revealed that the previous protagonist had died, off camera, between books three and four. It was not a gimmick. She was dead and never came back. I never finished the series.

Hmm. That's the kind of bravery from an author that would definitely make me want to read on; I generally appreciate authors who take chances even if they do not work over authors who play safe, at technical and structural levels. 

I think part of it is that I have a really strong dislike for stories where protagonists get protected by different rules from everyone else just because they are protagonists.  Titanic for example, where the two leads appear to be playing by Indiana Jones rules when it comes to wasding through icy water but everyone in steerage is dying from exposure much more realistically.  I can't connect to protagonists who are safe because they are protagonists, and nor can I connect to protagonists who are supposedly in danger if no serious consequences of danger ever happens to them.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 03:10:05 AM by the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh »
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Offline Anei

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Re: What makes people put down a book (goodreads)
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2013, 02:40:31 AM »
Someone that is supposed to excel in an area and is instead less than competent will usually drive me from a book, for example a supposedly brilliant detective that continually overlooks obvious clues or an experienced soldier that continually takes unnecessary risks.

I think the worst part about this is that in order to appear in the book, it had to have hit the author's radar. So the author is seeing this important piece of evidence and actively choosing not to 'permit' the character to discover it or understand its importance. If you want your character to be that, for lack of a better word, dumb, then make him or her that dumb.