Author Topic: Newbies ask the darnest things  (Read 49362 times)

Offline narphoenix

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2013, 12:12:23 PM »
On a parallel storyline some of my players encountered a boogey man harrassing some elderly lady. They rightly posited that it is a some sort of fetch that gained an entry through a mirror (yes very basic, but most of us are not familiar with the books ;)). They're (somewhat surprising) solution was to bolt two iron bars across the mirror, thinking it will keep the fetch (being a creature of the fair folk) at bay. Will this work, or does the fetch have some tricks in the sleeve perhaps?

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Offline Cadd

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2013, 12:12:46 PM »
I find the idea good. Simplistic, but to the point. If it works should really be up to the story:
Would it fit to have the fetch be barred by it and thus dealt with?
Or should the fetch be a "larger" antagonist and require a more direct approach?
Or should it be both - the bars blocked the fetch but it knows who did it and is now mightily annoyed at the interference?

If it fits the story, I'd definitely allow it to work. But I could just as easily say "tough luck, you just turned that single mirror into several different mirrors, it can still get through".
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 12:28:32 PM by Cadd »

Offline Joelok314

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2013, 05:28:49 PM »
I find the idea good. Simplistic, but to the point. If it works should really be up to the story:
Would it fit to have the fetch be barred by it and thus dealt with?
Or should the fetch be a "larger" antagonist and require a more direct approach?
Or should it be both - the bars blocked the fetch but it knows who did it and is now mightily annoyed at the interference?

If it fits the story, I'd definitely allow it to work. But I could just as easily say "tough luck, you just turned that single mirror into several different mirrors, it can still get through".

This is a good idea. If you want to truly go with the story, remember that the huge scarecrow used a tiny side mirror on a van to get through, so really I don't think the size of the mirror matters.

But, if the story didn't need this to be a huge thorough affair, then you could rule it works...
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2013, 10:16:14 PM »
I'd say it works. The bars are iron, after all, they should shut down pretty much any and all faerie stuff.

But there will be other mirrors in the area. A bathroom mirror next door, a rearview mirror outside...blocking one mirror isn't likely to keep the fetch away completely.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2013, 11:44:49 PM »
I'd say it works. The bars are iron, after all, they should shut down pretty much any and all faerie stuff.
Provided a boogieman is Fae, anyway. Does Harry specify?

Quote
But there will be other mirrors in the area. A bathroom mirror next door, a rearview mirror outside...blocking one mirror isn't likely to keep the fetch away completely.
I imagine, though, that if it runs into the iron bars, it may well injure itself or otherwise be diminished from the contact with iron.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2013, 04:00:33 AM »
Provided a boogieman is Fae, anyway. Does Harry specify?

...

I imagine, though, that if it runs into the iron bars, it may well injure itself or otherwise be diminished from the contact with iron.

McNulty said it was a faerie fetch.

I was assuming it'd be able to tell the iron was there before trying to pass through, on the grounds that even proximity to iron makes fey uncomfortable, but that might have been a mistake on my part.

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2013, 06:14:28 AM »
@Sancta
You're right on the Fae and iron score. When Harry meets Mab for the first time in Summer Knight is a good example of the Fae's strong aversion to it. It is an awful death for them after all.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2013, 12:55:46 PM »
@Sancta
You're right on the Fae and iron score. When Harry meets Mab for the first time in Summer Knight is a good example of the Fae's strong aversion to it. It is an awful death for them after all.
Well, Mab could see the nail, is the thing. I'm not sure if the fae can 'feel' iron they haven't touched yet. If they could, Lea may not have been tricked by the aluminum nails. And the Gruffs run headlong into the Carpenters' steel door (though perhaps given he was running, he might not have had time to stop anyway).

Of course, I suppose there's nothing stopping the boogieman from seeing the iron through the other side, or maybe the iron bars would make it so the boogieman simply can't open that passageway in the first place.

Anyway, lots of different ways you can play this.
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Offline McNulty

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2013, 02:42:24 PM »
@Sancta
You're right on the Fae and iron score. When Harry meets Mab for the first time in Summer Knight is a good example of the Fae's strong aversion to it. It is an awful death for them after all.

That was my take as well that the fae aversion to iron is very strong and they can even sense its proximity. This is why I was considering that this will stop the fetch going through the mirror, even if it could slip through a small fragment of mirror in other circumstances.

But there will be other mirrors in the area. A bathroom mirror next door, a rearview mirror outside...blocking one mirror isn't likely to keep the fetch away completely.

But of course there is always this..  As I would like to reward my players for their fair solution, I need to decide how the other mirrors will affect the situtation. Maybe it just buys them a bit more time to try to find out what is going on?

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2013, 03:12:10 PM »
Alternatively, the Fetch could come through the barred mirror, but be weakened by the unexpected iron, thereby making the subsequent conflict more manageable for the creative players.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2013, 10:12:32 PM »
But of course there is always this..  As I would like to reward my players for their fair solution, I need to decide how the other mirrors will affect the situtation. Maybe it just buys them a bit more time to try to find out what is going on?

If they block all but one mirror, they can lay a trap for the fetch when it comes through the last remaining mirror.

Dunno whether your players would think of that, though.

Offline martellian

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2013, 01:21:14 AM »
You could have the fetch come through the mirror, get burned, and retreat back to the Nevernever. The party thinks, woo, that did the trick, it's miller time, but later on the fetch and some of his buddies show up elsewhere to get the party for daring to use iron against them.

Offline PirateJack

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2013, 06:08:29 AM »
There have been a number of options listed, but I like the idea of lowering the Fetch's toughness by one notch for the next fight, given that its catch has been satisfied by the iron trap. Also, I'm pretty sure Faeries can't sense iron (Cold Days spoiler).

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Offline McNulty

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2013, 01:53:29 PM »
So we've had some combats under our belt now but we're still occasionally struggling to figure out the DF combat paradigm. Here are some examples, maybe you can comment on them through rules expert goggles.

Exhibit A:

Our focused practitioner (geomancer) attacks an major NPC who is giving orders to his goonies. Instead of inflicting stress he just wants to stop him to give out orders. Our geomancer has a bag of sand that he magically blows against the NPC. So he does a Maneuver to inflict an aspect like "Sand in the windpipe". How does this actually stop the NPC then.. should the player compel that Aspect (and giving the NPC a fate point) or what? Or is the NPC unable to command until he removes the manouver. And what's the difficulty in removing the aspect in this case, against the original channeling roll or something else?

Another option is to do a block with the sand, I guess, but maintaining the block takes his following action(s)?


Exhibit B:

Our living dead reporter (yes) grapples a NPC goonie and uses his might to throw the goonie against the wall. Then he proceeds to ask "so how much damage does the NPC take from the throw..? ". "Err.. none", I answer with a straight face. As This was followed by disappointed looks, so I relented and gave the NPC an aspect "Spread eagled on the floor". This was probably not within the rules, but within the paradigm I think.

So now we have an NPC with "Spread eagled on the floor" aspect. How does this effect him? Is he on the floor until he removes the aspect? Or is it only taggable bonus for our PCs? Or both? And what's the difficulty in removing the aspect in this case, against the original grapple/throw or a standard "Get on your feet -roll"?

Offline Haru

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Re: Newbies ask the darnest things
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2013, 02:16:01 PM »
Exhibit A:

Our focused practitioner (geomancer) attacks an major NPC who is giving orders to his goonies. Instead of inflicting stress he just wants to stop him to give out orders. Our geomancer has a bag of sand that he magically blows against the NPC. So he does a Maneuver to inflict an aspect like "Sand in the windpipe". How does this actually stop the NPC then.. should the player compel that Aspect (and giving the NPC a fate point) or what? Or is the NPC unable to command until he removes the manouver. And what's the difficulty in removing the aspect in this case, against the original channeling roll or something else?

Another option is to do a block with the sand, I guess, but maintaining the block takes his following action(s)?
If the aspect is established, it does exactly what it says, the NPC now has sand in his windpipe. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that it brings a bonus or penalty to each and every roll involving the NPC. When you create the aspect, you get a free invoke, called a tag. You can spend this tag like it is a fate point that you can only use on this aspect.

You can spend the tag (or after that fate points) to invoke the aspect. You can do that
1. either for a +2 bonus or a reroll when you are fighting the NPC and the aspect would be appropriate. Since sand in the windpipe should be pretty distracting, that should be almost always the case.
2. or you can go for an "invoke for effect" (YS99). This means, that you invoke the aspect either with your tag or with a fate point, and then specify an effect that is happening. For example, you could establish that he is unable to talk or even scream, as you say.

The difficulty to remove the aspect is equal to the shifts the maneuver was created with. If you do a 4 shift "sand in the windpipe" spell, then it requires a 4 shift action to get rid of it.


Quote
Exhibit B:

Our living dead reporter (yes) grapples a NPC goonie and uses his might to throw the goonie against the wall. Then he proceeds to ask "so how much damage does the NPC take from the throw..? ". "Err.. none", I answer with a straight face. As This was followed by disappointed looks, so I relented and gave the NPC an aspect "Spread eagled on the floor". This was probably not within the rules, but within the paradigm I think.

So now we have an NPC with "Spread eagled on the floor" aspect. How does this effect him? Is he on the floor until he removes the aspect? Or is it only taggable bonus for our PCs? Or both? And what's the difficulty in removing the aspect in this case, against the original grapple/throw or a standard "Get on your feet -roll"?
Well, what did he do, when he threw him against the wall? There are 3 actions you can do: attack, block, maneuver. A grapple is a type of block. If he keeps the grapple up, that's his action, and a block does not do any damage. However, when you do a grapple, you can chose to do 1 shift of damage (or more, if you have strength powers) as a supplemental action. That means that the strength of the grapple is reduced by 1 shift, but the character that is held in the grapple gets 1 shift of stress, which he can't defend against.

If, on the other hand, the grappler wants to inflict stress by throwing his target against the wall, that would be an attack action, and since he doesn't keep up his grapple, the target is automatically free now, but has to defend against the stress of the attack.
It's the same for a maneuver, the grapple ends, too. However, you can also put an aspect on the target as a supplemental action, if you like, just like the 1 shift of stress above.

If he doesn't do any of those actions, then throwing his target against the wall is just the way he describes him keeping the guy under control.

The NPC is effectively on the floor until he removes the aspect, yes. This should, of course, also mean that some actions are limited to him. Moving around, for example.
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