Werewolves reboot

[Taran]

Power isn't only about magic or immunity to such.  Look at Marconi.  He's a regular mortal and he's a signatory of the Accords.  Often it's about organization and influence.  If these werewolves are well organized and have a strong centre of power (which it seems they do because of the whole "pack-leader" thing), then there's no reason why they can't be a super power.

[Tirs]

 You know Macronni's syndicate can't declare war on (for example) Winter Court. I mean, he can, but without chance of winning.
 I construct Wolves'Impire as the as еру equal opponent for Red Court or White Council.

[Taran]

NOBODY can declare war on the Winter Court.  But there's a reason for that, so that's not a great example.  I think, if he mustered the right resources and allies, he could take on some serious threats

(click to show/hide)

He's already allied himself with White Court vamps to keep the Fomor out...which is more than what the White Council can do in many cities

[Tirs]

NOBODY can declare war on the Winter Court.  But there's a reason for that, so that's not a great example.  I think, if he mustered the right resources and allies, he could take on some serious threats

I think, Red Court could, and Council can. But you right, war against fairy is special issue. OK, my werewolves must be strong enough to declare was to Red Court. With the 50/50 chance to win.
 I just can't respect this creatures without it 

[Lavecki121]

I think, Red Court could, and Council can. But you right, war against fairy is special issue. OK, my werewolves must be strong enough to declare was to Red Court. With the 50/50 chance to win.
 I just can't respect this creatures without it 

I dont understand why you are trying to make a superpower. I can see, maybe if you were running a game with these creatures and this came up. But even then you dont have to have everything nailed in stone with uber powers. RCV might be able to wield magic but the majority are not magic users. I think your standard Werewolf Grunt Vs a RCV Grunt will fare just fine.

[Lavecki121]

Ok so I tried to fix as many issues as I could. The new blood powers may be underpowered and might need to be dropped down to -1 refresh. I based the ability off of the Unshakeable stunt that has a similar effect. Also I think a Sponsored Magic would be good for your shamans.

Werewolf by default:
Supernatural Constitution (Long Life) [–0]
Echoes of the Beast [–1]
Advanced Pack Instincts [–3]* (Same as Pack Instincts with: Use highest defense of the pack to defend against any social and mental attacks which use supernatural abilities ie. Magic).
Supernatural Sense [–1] Smell Magic
Human Form w/ Involuntary Change [+2] affects:
     Beast Change [–1]
     Claws [–1]
     Cloak of Shadows [–1]
     Inhuman Speed [–2]
The Catch [+3]: Silver.
     Inhuman Toughness [–2]
     Inhuman Recovery [–2]
Feeding Dependency (Meat) [+1]:
     Inhuman Strength [–2]
Total Refresh Cost: –10.

Enforcer:
As the "basic" but
Supernatural Strength [-4] and Toughness [-4]
Bless of Fenris [-2] :
Once per session an enforcer werewolf can use this ability reroll a physical attack or maneuver. While using this ability the user can “lock down” a number of dice equal to half his endurance.

Scout:
As the "basic" but
Supernatural Speed and Recovery
Bless of Trickster [-2]:
Once per session an enforcer werewolf can use this ability reroll an attack or maneuver meant to deceive the target. While using this ability the user can “lock down” a number of dice equal to half his presence.

Shaman:
As the "basic" but
Sponsored Magic (Wolf Rites?) [-4]
Thinking Sponsored magic might work better for what you are going for.

Alpha:
In addition to basic forms and abilities, she can use Loup-Gauru-like forms with template:
Echoes of the Beast [–1]
Pack Mentality [–3]
Supernatural Sense [–1]
Human Form [+1] affects:
     Beast Change [–1]
     Claws [–1]
Supernatural Toughness [–4]
Feeding Dependency (Meat) [+1] affects:
     Supernatural Speed [–4]
     Supernatural Strength [–4]
     Supernatural Recovery [–4]
Predator's charm [-2]:
Once per session an enforcer werewolf can use this ability reroll a social attack or maneuver. While using this ability the user can “lock down” a number of dice equal to half his presence.

As a final note: Am I right in assuming that Alphas are not affected by Silver? If so they do need some sort of catch to go with those powers.

[Cadd]

The thing with the Vampire War is that it mainly comes down to numbers. Each wizard is definitely more powerful than each RCV, but there seems to be more RCV's worldwide, and they reproduce a lot faster.

If you want to make werewolves a proper Nation to be reckoned with under the Accords (on par with the Red or White Courts, or the Council), you really don't have to do much more than up the numbers and create some kind of society, so they can be brought to pull in the same direction when needed.

If Alpha-style werewolves were organized and at the same numbers as one of the "relevant" vampire courts, they'd definitely be a signatory on par with them. Keep in mind, with a society of them, a lot more would probably reach the powerhouse Dire-wolf that Billy is in Turn Coat. A thousand of those around the world, capable of pulling together at need? Definitely a match for a single other Nation.

You've also generalized a bit much about being such as Ghouls - they aren't subservient to vampires, they are hired muscle. One clan of ghouls just likes dealing with the Reds, and Vitto Malvora (with the help of Cowl, probably) hired another big bunch for a job (White Night).

[Tirs]

RCV might be able to wield magic but the majority are not magic users

Of course I don't want to make all (or even most) of them magic users. By the my first plan, there is only 1-2 shaman per one pack.

Keep in mind, with a society of them, a lot more would probably reach the powerhouse Dire-wolf that Billy is in Turn Coat.

C'mon.You know, if Alphas meet one BCV with no holy stuff, they would be dead. All of them. No ifs, no buts. Against RCV it's not so bad, but... just compare their stuts. Reds have advantage in toughness.
In my option I use shapeshifters like Alphas (not only wolves) as the servants and vassals of my werewolves.
 

If Alpha-style werewolves were organized and at the same numbers as one of the "relevant" vampire courts, they'd definitely be a signatory on par with them.

Sorry, but your option is pointless. WHAT this "organized Alphas" can do against Red King? Well, besides the fact that they make him laugh. Superpower need units which CAN fight against enemy's  strongest units.
P.S. And please, don't speak about sneaky tricks. Of course, it must be used, but if supernatural nation have no brutefoce to fight against their enemyis face-to-face, it's don't deserve the respect.
P.P.S. But I will be glad to constructive criticism. Btw, what do you think about Anitaverse werewolves? Of course, WITHOUT Beast Call as vampires ability.

[HumAnnoyd]

You do realize that the sun, holy items and water, fire and a host of other things would allow the Alphas to fight the RCVs right?  It isn't as if they are invulnerable.

[Lavecki121]

Werewolves as stated in OW are very on par with red court vamps as stated in OW, and they have for less refresh. The alphas are also pretty close to that as well, still having four less refresh. Translated into a submerged game, alphas start with 4 FP, while RCV start with none.


Edit: I feel like you are trying to add a superpower in your own version of the Dresden verse, which is fine, but there is no reason to do that with poorly balanced custom powers. 90% of any game you run this with, you won't really need to worry about those stats.

Also, something to consider, your original power, which protected them from all magical mental stress, does nothing verses a RCV addictive saliva.

[Sanctaphrax]

C'mon.You know, if Alphas meet one BCV with no holy stuff, they would be dead. All of them. No ifs, no buts. Against RCV it's not so bad, but... just compare their stuts. Reds have advantage in toughness.

Billy Borden could kill a Red Court Vampire in single combat, going by the stats in Our World. He probably wouldn't even need to spend a Fate Point.

A Black Court Vampire would be trickier, but I'd still put my money on Billy in a duel.

P.P.S. But I will be glad to constructive criticism. Btw, what do you think about Anitaverse werewolves? Of course, WITHOUT Beast Call as vampires ability.

I'm not familiar with the Anitaverse, unfortunately.

[Tirs]

You do realize that the sun, holy items and water, fire and a host of other things would allow the Alphas to fight the RCVs right?  It isn't as if they are invulnerable

As I said, it's sneaky tricks. No, I like it , but supernatural SUPERpower must to can fight directly.

Also, something to consider, your original power, which protected them from all magical mental stress, does nothing verses a RCV addictive saliva.

Yep. But it won't let vampires with Dominate set on one half of the pack to the other.

A Black Court Vampire would be trickier, but I'd still put my money on Billy in a duel.

Oh, c'mon. If I right correctly assessed their strength, BCV is roughly equal to True Blood/Southern vampire mysteries. And fight werewolves like Alpha (they were usual wolves, not dire wolves, but theyuse Vampire blood as the steroids).
This was end this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dWYJNed6zI

I'm not familiar with the Anitaverse, unfortunately.

Werewolves described here
http://anitablake.wikia.com/wiki/Lycanthropes

[Sanctaphrax]

Oh, c'mon. If I right correctly assessed their strength, BCV is roughly equal to True Blood/Southern vampire mysteries. And fight werewolves like Alpha (they were usual wolves, not dire wolves, but theyuse Vampire blood as the steroids).
This was end this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dWYJNed6zI

I don't know anything about True Blood.

But by the book, an average Black Court vamp has Good attacks at weapon 4, Great defence rolls, 7 stress boxes, and armour 2. Billy has Great attacks at weapon 4, Superb defence rolls, 4 stress boxes, and armour 0. Billy wins initiative.

Billy will hit roughly 58% of the time, the vamp will hit roughly 26% of the time. But the vampire is much more durable, so Billy will have to spend FP whenever the vamp gets a lucky roll. The question is basically whether Billy's FP will hold out long enough for him to beat the vamp.

Of course, the vampire has weaknesses like garlic and Billy does not. If Billy eats something garlicky for dinner before fighting the vamp, the battle will be very one-sided. We're assuming for the sake of argument that the vamp's Catch doesn't come up.

Werewolves described here
http://anitablake.wikia.com/wiki/Lycanthropes

Looks like Echoes Of The Beast, Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Recovery, Supernatural Speed, and Human Form affecting Supernatural Strength, Claws, and Inhuman Toughness. You'd have to change it up a bit depending on breed, of course.

[blackstaff67]

If you want another supernatural nation, just come up with a faction that covers all shape-changers, given that shape-changers are particular to cultural critters that the home culture finds scary: Japanese and Polynesians have were-sharks, I think the Japanese also have were-foxes; I believe that some Southwest Amerind tribes have were-coyotes while were-jaguars are common in South America, etc. 

For extra oomph, they can conceivably hire sorcerers and minor talents to round out their ranks. 

[Tirs]

I don't want to make them minor-talanted, it must be separate nation. About shapeshifters... you know, for me were- is  wolf, first of all. But it can be intrested option (if wolves won't be harm in their abilities), but were-sharcs is too exotic. I think, were's mast be only large terrestrial predators.