Statting Up Worm Characters

[Hick Jr]

The Catch doesn't count when calculating the cost of Tank's Toughness Surcharge upgrade, I assume? You should probably make that implicit. Regarding those surcharges, they seem fair.

Upon first reading, I thought that ACaEBM didn't ignore Armor granted by Powers. It does ignore it, but I was briefly confused. Worth noting.

I think there was a misunderstanding in my post regarding Skilled Projection. I was saying that Manton's mental/knowledge skills should override those of the Projection. The Siberian would effectively have Fantastic Scholarship, because Manton has Fantastic Scholarship. This might merit a [-1] upgrade.

Full review forthcoming. Sorry. I've been busy with real life and trying not to let a game die.

[Sanctaphrax]

You know, I completely forgot about the Catch. It would probably be fairer to take it into account, but if I do that then I should probably change the Refresh surcharge numbers.

Next draft, I guess.

I'll remove the word "mundane" from ACaEBM.

I got your meaning about Skilled Projection. But if Manton's mental skills override those of his Projection, then his Projection has the same mental skills he does. Letting him reduce his Scholarship without actually reducing his Scholarship is obviously not OK. So Skilled Projection shouldn't be able to "reduce" mental skills.

Might be good to let Skilled Projection raise some social skills a bit, to compensate.

And there's no rush. I'm not going anywhere.

[Hick Jr]

What if a series of [-varies] upgrades for Skilled Projection allows you to use your mental/social/knowledge skills in place of the projection's, on a 1:1 refresh:skill ratio? Mimic Abilities establishes a precedent for a 1 Refresh upgrade allowing skill replacement.

Oh, and on the Mimic Abilities note, I meant that I felt that having to eat people to use the power was overly narrow. Allowing other "mimic" conditions, a-la your writeup of Grue, is where I felt the power needed changing.

[narphoenix]

Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable. 

[Hick Jr]

Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable.

Yep! Not the Yangban, mind you- the C.U.I., meaning the entirety of former Chinese government and population.


Oh! And she did it in the most awesome, awesome way possible, for her. Spoiler below.

(click to show/hide)

She basically does what we all wanted her to do with the relay bugs- reached across hundreds of worlds, and pulled in all their bugs. The resulting swarm is more than a quintillion bugs strong, and handily curbstomps the entire Yangban, which, for the record, is three hundred combat-trained parahumans, each with upwards of sixty powers.

[narphoenix]

Now I imagine Imp going up to her brother after Taylor ascends to basically being able to match Scion,"You know. You tapped that."

[Sanctaphrax]

What if a series of [-varies] upgrades for Skilled Projection allows you to use your mental/social/knowledge skills in place of the projection's, on a 1:1 refresh:skill ratio? Mimic Abilities establishes a precedent for a 1 Refresh upgrade allowing skill replacement.

Not a good precedent. That particular function of Mimic Abilities really isn't balanced.

And if we took that approach, how would the skills of people without those upgrades work? Giving people the chance to upgrade away the issue doesn't make the issue not real.

Oh, and on the Mimic Abilities note, I meant that I felt that having to eat people to use the power was overly narrow. Allowing other "mimic" conditions, a-la your writeup of Grue, is where I felt the power needed changing.

Mm.

The thing is, Mimic Abilities is really powerful. It needs a big pain-in-the-neck condition, to prevent it from being too strong.

Whatever you replace eating people with has to be as difficult and dangerous as eating people.

(Yes, I know my Grue write-up doesn't follow that guideline. But Grue's power has a very limited duration, and it can't copy everything that normal Mimic Abilities can copy.)

Also, given that Taylor just curbstomped Teacher and friends and CUI, I'm going to go with the interpretation that she's now unstattable.

Nah. That was mostly Doormaker. I still think Taylor could be statted.

[narphoenix]

Nah. That was mostly Doormaker. I still think Taylor could be statted.

IF she could (a huge if), she's playing in negative refresh land, now. I'd bet my life.

[narphoenix]

Sorry for the double post, but:

Did Taylor just stomp GLAISTIG UAINE into the ground?!

[Hick Jr]

I thought Uaine had her for a minute there. But no. Taylor is going insane. I actually teared up a bit when she forgot her anchors.


EDIT--Also, let's not forget that barring Taylor, maybe Dragon, and possibly that "hi i'm foreshadowing" cape lady from some other earth, Uaine was unquestionably the most powerful parahuman in existence. She'd absorbed hundreds of capes before Scion went psycho and starting killing them wholesale. She's probably gained at least two hundred more cape-shadows just by virtue of being present at each battle against Scion. She even got Eidolon. Uaine kicked ass, and Taylor just turned her into a Master/Trump 12 puppet.


Actually, because this thread has been slowing down a bit, fun thing- Which cape's powers would you want? Or what powers would you want unattached to an existing cape? Mine goes, in order, Contessa, Eidolon, Glaistig Uaine, Number Man, Siberian, Crawler, Cherish, Dragon, Lung, Marquis, Panacea, Vista, and Genesis. If I had to pick a non-canon power, electromagnetokinesis and electromagnetovoyance would be the ones.

Yes, I am a power hungry maniac. That should be obvious by now. Taylor's not on there because being a swarm of bees in a jar, Taylor makes me uncomfortable.

[Hick Jr]

Unstoppable Non-Teleportation (which makes her un-grapple-able and lets her walk through walls), All Creatures (And Objects) Are Equal Before Me (which lets her tear up people and buildings as if they were paper), and Tank (which lets her take hits in place of her allies) will eventually get written up.

(click to show/hide)

Siberian (Scuba Diving)

High Concept: Most Powerful Member Of The Nine
Trouble Aspect: Secretly William Manton
Other Aspects: Weird Relationship With Cauldron, Trying To Replace His Daughter, Naked And Silent, We Are All Animals, I Will Hunt You Down And Eat You And There Is Nothing You Can Do To Stop Me
Skills:
Fantastic: Scholarship
Superb: Survival, Intimidation
Great: Discipline, Alertness, Stealth
Good: Conviction, Investigation, Endurance
Fair: Rapport, Empathy, Presence, Athletics
Average: Craftsmanship, Burglary, Deceit, Weapons, Might
Skills:
Fantastic: Fists, Might
Superb: Survival, Intimidation
Great: Discipline, Alertness
Good: Conviction, Athletics, Stealth
Fair: Presence, Investigation, Empathy
Average: Endurance, Rapport, Deceit
Stunts:
Parahuman Researcher (Scholarship): +2 to Scholarship when Powers are involved.
Power Analysis (Scholarship): May use Scholarship, including Parahuman Researcher bonus, to analyse powers and determine their true nature.
Worked With Cauldron (Scholarship): Use Scholarship for knowledge of cosmic entities and Cauldron operations.
Hunt You Down (Survival): +1 to track, Investigation doesn't modify tracking.
Can't Block Me (Fists): When attacking through Projection, Fists attacks count as bullets for the purpose of selecting blocking skills.
Kill Rip Tear (Fists): May make spray attacks with Fists.
Horrifying Reputation (Intimidation): Use Intimidation instead of Presence for Reputation trapping.
Run! It's The Siberian! (Intimidation): +2 to perform The Brush-Off.
No Way Someone So Harmless-Looking Could Be The Siberian (Intimidation): Use Intimidation to hide the fact that the Siberian is a projection of William Manton.
Throw Cars (Might): Use Might to attack with heavy objects at range.
Nobody Knows They Should Be Looking For Me (Stealth): +2 to Stealth in normal body against people who don't know his secret.
Powers:
Skilled Projection [-3]
Limitation (Following Powers apply only to projection) [+27]
  Potent Natural Weaponry [-2]
  Mythic Strength [-6]
  Immunity (Total) [-30]
  Unstoppable Rapid Non-Teleportation [-4]
  Limitation (Melee attacks only) [+2]
    All Creatures (And Objects) Are Equal Before Me [-9]
  Tank [-5]
  Semi-Animate [-1]
Total Refresh Cost:
-42
Refresh Total:
-21

So this is my review of the Siberian. Here goes.

-Aspects look good.

-Skills look okay. I'm wondering at a few of the choices near the bottom of both pyramids, but I know how it goes when you have a lot of skill points.

-We've been over the stunts. However, is the Throw Cars stunt actually necessary? The book says that you can use anything six levels below your lifting/breaking roll as a thrown weapon, presumably with a Might roll.

-I'm not sure why an "unstoppable" upgrade is necessary for Teleportation. Normal Teleportation lets you ignore blocks just by teleporting through them, and a reflavor is all you need to let Siberian bust through barriers with unupgraded Teleportation.

-S/he should probably have Superhuman Acrobatics. The projection could use it's powers to stand on a spiderweb no problem, and Siberian repeatedly uses her powers to make the ground underneath her invulnerable and then jump really high. I wonder if the projection could deorbit if it wasn't tethered to Manton.

-I'm aware that you're revising the Tank power to account for my observations, but there should probably be a "doesn't work on Manton himself" Limitation on there. Otherwise the Siberian is unkillable.

-Does Tank extend the effects of every defensive power the possessor has? Because it would also award anyone she touches with Semi-Animate if it does, which I think is accurate.

Man, pronouns are tough.


Also, I had a thought earlier- Can't we do Teacher's powers with Enhanced Enthrallment? 4 Refresh of Powers sounds about right regarding the abilities he can grant. That allows for a 3 Refresh Supernatural Sense, Tinker and one Refinement, Precognition and Prophecy, Inexplicable Knowledge, and many more things that fit the "low level thinker/tinker" stuff. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Sorry for the double post, but:

Did Taylor just stomp GLAISTIG UAINE into the ground?!

Nah, she just won. No stomping.

EDIT--Also, let's not forget that barring Taylor, maybe Dragon, and possibly that "hi i'm foreshadowing" cape lady from some other earth, Uaine was unquestionably the most powerful parahuman in existence.

Actually, I think Contessa might still be stronger. Can't ignore Doormaker or Panacea, either.

Actually, because this thread has been slowing down a bit, fun thing- Which cape's powers would you want?

Number Man.

I'm a mathematician and a martial artist. His power would make me a dozen times better at the things I do. Unfortunately he ages normally and needs to sleep, but no power is perfect.

He's not the strongest cape around, he's just the one whose powers fit me best. And although I'm not the monster that he is, he and I have a fair bit in common.

Though on second thought...perhaps I have a moral responsibility to take Contessa's power or Eidolon's power or Doormaker's power and use them to create a better future for everyone. Bit selfish to take math powers when I could be creating a new golden age.

-Skills look okay. I'm wondering at a few of the choices near the bottom of both pyramids, but I know how it goes when you have a lot of skill points.

I'll probably be revising the skills along with Projection.

-We've been over the stunts. However, is the Throw Cars stunt actually necessary? The book says that you can use anything six levels below your lifting/breaking roll as a thrown weapon, presumably with a Might roll.

Normally you'd have to aim a thrown car with Weapons. The Siberian lacks that skill.

-I'm not sure why an "unstoppable" upgrade is necessary for Teleportation. Normal Teleportation lets you ignore blocks just by teleporting through them, and a reflavor is all you need to let Siberian bust through barriers with unupgraded Teleportation.

The Siberian destroys things when (s)he moves through them and can't be grappled at all.

-S/he should probably have Superhuman Acrobatics.

You're right. Thanks.

-I'm aware that you're revising the Tank power to account for my observations, but there should probably be a "doesn't work on Manton himself" Limitation on there. Otherwise the Siberian is unkillable.

Oops, don't know how I forgot that.

-Does Tank extend the effects of every defensive power the possessor has? Because it would also award anyone she touches with Semi-Animate if it does, which I think is accurate.

Not exactly. Tank doesn't actually let you share Powers, it just lets you take hits for other people. But the Siberian could absorb the stress Jack takes from poison gas, and not suffer at all for it, so in a sense Semi-Animate gets shared.

Man, pronouns are tough.

Tell me about it.

Also, I had a thought earlier- Can't we do Teacher's powers with Enhanced Enthrallment? 4 Refresh of Powers sounds about right regarding the abilities he can grant. That allows for a 3 Refresh Supernatural Sense, Tinker and one Refinement, Precognition and Prophecy, Inexplicable Knowledge, and many more things that fit the "low level thinker/tinker" stuff. 

Good idea.

Normally the 4 Refresh of Powers that Enthrallment grants is fixed, but an upgrade could change that.

[narphoenix]

As a matter of tradition, this cannot go unsaid:

Glaistig Uaine: "Indeed. Verily, I can take thee."

[Hick Jr]

Poor Doormaker. 


So I was thinking about the Travelers (rereading archives to pass time until Saturday). Genesis is pretty well covered by Projection-True Shapeshifting-Modular Abilities, Trickster is sort of unstattable unless I write an Incite Effect upgrade that lets you move yourself and others with it, Ballistic is probably just Natural Weaponry, Sundancer is Natural Weaponry, Mythic Strength with the Limitation that she only gets the stress bonus and thre breaking bonus to melt stuff, and Immunity (Fire). Noelle has already been statted, and we don't know enough about Oliver to stat him.


I was also thinking about the possibly late Glaistig Uaine. I'm not sure how to stat what she does. I'm leaning towards Projection/Mimic Abilities, but that might be overcomplicating it. I was also thinking about Weld. He probably deserves Semi-Animate, Feel No Pain, Mythic Toughness, Supernatural Strength, Natural Weaponry, and possibly some other stuff.

[Sanctaphrax]

I was also thinking about the possibly late Glaistig Uaine. I'm not sure how to stat what she does. I'm leaning towards Projection/Mimic Abilities, but that might be overcomplicating it.

Glaistig is tricky.

Like Taylor, she has multiple actions. Which is of course a bugger to stat.

And she uses a weird variant of Mimic Abilities where she doesn't actually copy the Powers, she just adds them to her Variable Abilities list. Not sure how to stat that.

Speaking of her Variable Abilities list, it's gotta be ridiculously long and complicated. Particularly because she's limited by number of capes rather than amount of Refresh...bringing up Grey Boy and Eidolon costs her no more than bringing up Clockblocker and Bakuda.

Projection might be appropriate if she can send her ghosts out to do stuff for her, but I think they have to stay close to her body. Which means that they're basically just fluff. Except they can be attacked...so maybe Projection is appropriate after all?

So yeah. More of a challenge than I'm interested in right now.

I was also thinking about Weld. He probably deserves Semi-Animate, Feel No Pain, Mythic Toughness, Supernatural Strength, Natural Weaponry, and possibly some other stuff.

Mythic Toughness might be a bit much. I'd go with Supernatural Toughness and Inhuman Recovery.

Apart from that, I think you pretty much covered it. Maybe a stunt for the metal-absorption? But Aspects are probably enough for that.