Author Topic: Dresden meets Fate Core  (Read 9394 times)

Offline black omega

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Dresden meets Fate Core
« on: May 02, 2013, 02:57:22 PM »
Has anyone tried a Dresden game yet using Fate Core?    I'm currently working on one and looking for more ideas.  So far I'm planning to stick with the skills for Dresden, minus Presence since the social stress track has gone away and it would not be likely to see much use in my game in any case.  Merging Might and Endurance into Physique was interesting in Core but would result in wizards who want to cast longer looking like Ahnuld and that's not quite the effect I'm going for.  The powers look like they adapt without trouble.  Conviction and Discipline merging into Will makes things simpler for wizards but does take away the "I can generate more power than I can easily control"  element.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 09:59:09 PM »
You're not the first to have this idea.

I would suggest using Fight and Shoot instead of Fists, Weapons, and Guns. I'd probably drop Burglary, too.

And if you merge Conviction and Discipline you should do something to make casting weaker. Because otherwise it's a pretty big upgrade for Wizards.

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2013, 06:30:41 AM »
I think its pretty easy to convert to fate core. However The magic system is definitely my stumbling block. The current system of putting power into a spell, and then trying to control works great for thaumaturgy, but once combat starts, everything grinds to a halt. Instead I plan make magic just like a skill using Will and Focus:

Will represents the raw emotional force of a character. It can be used to defend against provoke attacks and mental attacks, or overcome hardship through sheer stubbornness. It is used to provided mental stress boxes. In magical terms, it is used when blunt force is necessary (attacks, blowing doors off their hinges, creating strong winds)

Focus represents a characters ability to control their emotions, to stay awake, engage in games of chess, crack codes etc, etc. In magical terms, it is used when fine control is necessary (lighting a fuse, creating a veil or picking a lock with air magic). 

In games terms, Harry would have a high Will (his attacks trend to hurt) but a low Focus ( he isnt great at subtle magic like veils)

I am also thinking about doing away with the 1 point min stress for evocations. Rereading various combats with Harry, its clear he seems to be able to throw around a few spells without serious effect.Its only when he tries something powerful that tends to leave him exhausted or spent.

Offline Troy

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2013, 02:26:17 PM »
Well, I had a suggestion, but as I typed it I realized it would apply more to the original game rules rather than the Fate Core rules.

I was going to suggest only taking Mental Stress if the power of your Evocation exceeds your Conviction, at which point you take one Mental Stress for each point over. So, you have Conviction 3 and you summon up 4 Shifts of power, you take 1 Mental Stress. In practice, this reduces the Stress cost of a single spell by 1, but greatly expands the number of spells a character can cast. The previous example... the guy could cast 3 shifts of power spells all day long... is that what you intend? Or perhaps there should be a limit based on his Physique or Endurance?
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Offline black omega

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2013, 02:53:35 PM »
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

You're not the first to have this idea.

I would have been shocked if I was.  Thanks for the link.
I would suggest using Fight and Shoot instead of Fists, Weapons, and Guns. I'd probably drop Burglary, too.

One of the PCs is going to be a retired thief, dropping Burglary seems unnecessary.  The skills are useful for some types of games.  I'm undecided on Fight/Shoot vs. Fists/Weapons/Guns. Too few skills and the PCs will all have the same skills.   

And if you merge Conviction and Discipline you should do something to make casting weaker. Because otherwise it's a pretty big upgrade for Wizards.

Good point.  I'm likely to keep them.  Using magic for aspects is pretty easy but the big attacks Dresden goes for now and then cost alot of stress, that limits the number of omega strikes the PCs can use.

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 05:43:06 PM »
Regarding magic, i am trying to capture the spirit of dresden, but trying to do away with power and roll for magic like skills. In other words, if you roll high to place an aspect or defend, thats equivalent to putting more power into the spell.I am looking at a sort of skill boost you can have by taking mental stress. So if you want to cast regular unboosted magic, thats just a case of rolling Will or Focus and hoping for a high result. If want to say attack somone with a Weapon 6 fireball, thats going to cost 6 mental stress.

Offline Haru

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 11:01:27 PM »
Regarding magic, i am trying to capture the spirit of dresden, but trying to do away with power and roll for magic like skills. In other words, if you roll high to place an aspect or defend, thats equivalent to putting more power into the spell.I am looking at a sort of skill boost you can have by taking mental stress. So if you want to cast regular unboosted magic, thats just a case of rolling Will or Focus and hoping for a high result. If want to say attack somone with a Weapon 6 fireball, thats going to cost 6 mental stress.
That's pretty much what I was trying to do, maybe you can use this:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,37624.msg1841610.html#msg1841610
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Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 08:56:33 AM »
That's pretty much what I was trying to do, maybe you can use this:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,37624.msg1841610.html#msg1841610

Very nice work. I think I will definitely yoink parts of that :)

Offline Haru

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
Glad you like it. If you make changes, I would appreciate if you post them to the thread, maybe they can improve the power.
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Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 10:25:33 PM »
Well this is how I am going to run evocation magic, using Fate Core. Each spellcaster has 3 skills

Lore: supernatural awareness and arcane knowledge
Will: conviction and belief - represents the power of your spells
Focus: mental discipline and ability to control magical energy

Gathering Power
To achieve any effect with magic you need to first gather magical power. Fortunately magical energy is the essence of life and emotions; you need only a moment to focus your will or channel an emotion to power a spell. However if you want to put more effort and power into a spell its possible to take a create an advantage action; use Will when getting emotional, Focus for intense concentration, and Lore to draw magic from your surroundings. The difficulty is equal to the ambient level of magical energy; typically this is Fair (+2), but in the Nevernever this could be Moderate (+0) at worst, while a magical dead zone would likely be at least Superb (+5). In a magically sealed environment, such as within an uninvited threshold or circle of magic, use the thresholds strength or the Will of the Spellcaster. If this action is successful, you may use any free invokes gained to cast your spell.

Casting the Spell
Now the energy is gathered, you need to focus and release it safely in the form of a spell. Choose one of the following actions. Unless you are casting a rote spell, you must also take a point of mental stress.

Overcome: Use Will to deliberately hex a machine or piece of technology, or overcome an obstacle or problem using magic, such as picking a lock or lighting a fuse. Use Will to remove an aspect created with magic (known as a counterspell); the spell’s caster may defend with Will.

Create an Advantage: Use Will to alter the environment with magic, or place a mental or physical aspect on a target. This may be an impediment, such as Trapped in Ice or Dazzled, or defensive in nature, such as Veil of Invisibility or Entropic Shield. Characters can defend against this with Athletics or Will as appropriate.
 
Attack: Use Will to harm someone with magic, whether conjuring fireballs or removing air from their lungs. Targets can defend against this with Athletics or Will depend¬ing on the nature of the attack.

Defend: Use Will to defend against hostile magics or other supernatural effects (known as a counterspell). If you have a defensive aspect on yourself you may use Will to defend against an appropriate action; a force shield against physical attacks or a veil against Notice rolls etc.

Backlash and Fallout
If your skill result is greater than your Focus skill, you have failed to properly harness the magical energies in the spell; your spell may be successful, but you must deal with the chaotic effects of uncontrolled magic. Each shift of uncontrolled power (the difference between you skill result and your Focus) must take the form of either backlash or fallout. Backlash is when your body absorbs this chaotic energy; you must take a point of either mental or physical stress for each shift assigned. Fallout represents uncontrolled magical energies leaking into the environment. In game terms, the Gm gets to place an aspect on the scene using the shifts you assign as a passive opposition to any attempts to overcome it.

Harry Dresden is trying to cast a fireball at a ghoul in his office. He makes a Will roll getting a result of 7; since his Focus is just +4, Harry decides to take all of those shifts as fallout. The Gm places Office on Fire on the scene, whether the spell hits the ghoul or not. Anyone trying to remove or get past the fire requires a Good (+3) result or better.

Rote Spells
You start with a number of rote spells equal to your Lore, plus any gained from the Refinement power. Words insulate a spell caster from harm when casting an evocation spell and each rote spell must be named and spoken when cast; typically this is in another language to prevent you from accidentally casting it. Each rote spell has a defined element and type of action – you cannot modify the basic nature of a rote spell, but you may gather power to increase the power of the final effect.

Specializations: Each specialization provides a +1 bonus to Focus, Lore or Will when using a specific element or type of thaumaturgy.

Crafting Specializations: Each specialization provides a +1 bonus to the Capacity, Frequency or Potency of any items you create. Any Focus items you create have a Capacity equal to your Lore. Any Enchanted items you create have a Frequency of 1, and a Potency equal to your Lore.

Focus items: Each Focus item slot provides a +1 bonus to your Focus, Lore or Will relating to one element or type of thaumaturgy, used either offensively or defensively. A blasting rod could provide a +1 Focus when using fire offensively, or a shield bracelet may add +1 to Will when using defensive spirit magic. If you want to be able to apply an additional element or type to a focus, all elements must share the same bonuses; for a staff that provides a +1 Focus to offensive fire magic, and +1 Will to defensive fire magic, adding the element of water would cost an additional 2 focus item slots. No single item may have a total number of bonuses that exceeds its Capacity.

Enchanted items: Each enchanted item slot represents an item containing a spell, usable a number of times each session equal to the item’s Frequency. Activating the spell is just like casting an evocation spell using the item’s Potency; it is not subject to fallout or backlash but you cannot gather power to increase this value. You may increase an item’s Frequency by reducing its Potency by the same amount. However, you cannot reduce an item’s Potency to less than 1 plus your Potency bonuses. You may also reduce an item’s Potency by 1 so that it can be used by anyone; such as a wand that requires a word to activate or a scroll containing a spell.

Each additional enchantment slot can be used to either increase an item’s Potency by 1, or its Frequency by 2. However, no item can have a Potency rating of more than twice your Lore without a very good rationale and a ton of baggage.

Enchanted items may need a skill to use effectively, such as staff of fireballs that requires a Shoot roll. In this case use the skill or the item’s Potency, whichever is lowest. If an item has been drained of uses, you may still use them but you must take a point of mental stress when doing so.

Armour: Armour is a special type of enchanted item that provides an Armour rating equal to the item’s Potency/2, rounding down. Each time armour is activated it lasts for an entire scene or until it removed by magic; you may defend against such actions with Will.

Potions: Potions are a special type of enchanted item. They can be used by anyone without needing to reduce their Potency, but can only be used once. If you have any enchantment slots free at the start of a session, you may declare any of these as potions. Alternatively, you may create an advantage using lore, to have one on hand (or a second if you succeed with style). Unlike regular enchanted items, you may gather power to bolster the effectiveness of the potion, creating an advantage such as Empowered Potion.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 11:57:18 AM by Phantomdoodler »

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 03:01:40 AM »
High rolls should not be bad for the character who achieves them.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 05:38:39 AM »
Not sure I see the point of those rules. You take two actions, risk backlash/fallout, take mental stress, and so on...in exchange for what? Magic doesn't seem to do anything that a normal skill roll doesn't do.

Also:

What does Focus do, other than help with spellcasting?

Are you using the standard costs for Evocation and Thaumaturgy?

Why have you removed thaumaturgical enchanted items?

Why have you made armour items last so long?

I just don't get the point of this rules revision. What are you aiming at here?

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 09:51:27 AM »
You only need to take two actions if you want to give a spell more juice. Normally its a case of casting a spell. I wanted to get away from the declare power shifts then try to harness it. Instead your Will roll represents the power of the spell. You can keep gathering power to fire it up, achieving huge results, but unless you have a high Focus, its going to be messy. In other words, your Will result is equivalent to the shifts of power in the spell. If you have a high Will but low Focus, your spells will be more dramatic but destructive. If you have a low Will and high focus, your spells will be less powerful, but controlled. I wouldn't have any problem with players reducing their Will result if they didn't want backlash etc

The alternative is to ditch Focus and have everything run off Will, with backlash and fallout occurring as a failed roll. The only problem with this is that if you gather more power, it actually reduces the chance of failure, which seems counter intuitive to me.

Focus is used for games of chess, staying awake, placing concentration type actions on yourself etc. Will is used for overcoming hardship with faith, belief or conviction etc.

For armour, in Fate core aspects seem to stay around much longer, so that was just my thinking, but I could do way with that completely - treat armour as an aspect so it stays around until it has been overcome or counter spelled.

Yes, evocation and thaumaturgy costs the same as the book, along with focus item slots and specialisations.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 09:54:39 AM by Phantomdoodler »

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 10:04:20 AM »
Regarding spells being not as good as skills, with magic you can do things not possible with skills. You may be able to use Physique to create an aspect such as Toppled crates, but with magic you can cover the floor with quicksand or incase someone in ice. Being able to throw fireballs is also handy,especially without a gun (my game is in Britain so my players are not toting guns).

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Dresden meets Fate Core
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 11:30:36 AM »
Still I take your points. I may try this- its a hybrid between fate core and dfrpg:

Gathering Power
To achieve any effect with magic you need to first gather magical power. Fortunately magical energy is the essence of life and emotions; you need only take a moment to focus your will or channel an emotion. Unless you are casting a rote spell or hexing, you must take a point of mental stress to do this. If you want to create a more powerful effect, you can draw shifts of power into your spell up to your Focus without harm; any more power causes backlash or fallout (see below)

Casting the Spell
Now the power is gathered, you must focus the energy into a spell. Choose one of the following actions:
Overcome: Use Will roll to deliberately hex an entire machine or Focus to hex one component. Use Will to overcome an obstacle using brute force, such as such as blowing down a door, or Focus to use fine manipulation, such as picking a lock or lighting a fuse. Use Will to remove an aspect created with magic (known as a counterspell). You must exceed the difficulty of the obstacle, or in the case of a counterspell, the Will of the caster. Each 2 shifts of power may be used to hex or counterspell all targets within one zone

Create an Advantage: Use Will to alter the environment with magic or place a mental or physical impediment on a target, such as Trapped in Ice or Dazzled. Use Focus to place a veil or shield on a target. Characters can defend against this with Athletics or Will as appropriate. For each 2 shifts of power, you may affect all targets within one zone. For each 2 shifts of power you gain a free invoke with the created aspect. For 2 shifts of power you can create a veil that can be seen out from.

Attack: Use Will to harm someone with magic, whether conjuring fireballs or removing air from their lungs. Targets can defend against this with Athletics or Will depend¬ing on the nature of the attack. Each shift of power increases the Weapon rating of the attack by 1. For each additional 2 shifts of power, you may attack all targets within one zone.

Defend: Use Will to defend against hostiles magic or supernatural effects. If you have a
defensive aspect such as a shield or veil, you may use Will to defend when applicable.

Backlash and Fallout
If the shifts of power in a spell exceed your Focus, you have failed to properly harness the magical energies in the spell; your spell may be successful, but you must deal with the chaotic effects of uncontrolled magic. Each excessive shift of power must take the form of either backlash or fallout. Backlash is when your body absorbs this chaotic energy; you must take a point of either mental or physical stress for each shift assigned. Fallout represents uncontrolled magical energies leaking into the environment. In game terms, the Gm gets to place an aspect on the scene using the shifts you assign as a guide to the scale of destruction this causes, and the difficulty to overcome it.

Harry Dresden is trying to cast Fuego at a ghoul in his office, putting 7 shifts of power into the spell. Since his Focus is +4 ,Harry decides to take all of those shifts as fallout. The Gm places Office on Fire to the scene requiring Good (+3) result to get avoid, whether the spell hits the ghoul or not…

Rote Spells
You possess a number of rote spells equal to your Lore. Words insulate a spell caster from harm when casting an evocation spell and each rote spell must be named and spoken when cast; typically this is in another language to prevent you from accidentally casting it. Each rote spell has a defined element and type of action. If the rote spell benefits from a focus item, you can only use the rote spell with it.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 02:42:40 PM by Phantomdoodler »