Zonewide Maneuver

[Lavecki121]

If I set up a maneuver that is meant to inspire allies in a zone, does every person get to tag the aspect created or is it just one aspect and the group gets one tag as a whole?

Let me know if I didnt explain this right.

[Haru]

It is one aspect, so you (as the one who created it) get one free tag on it, which you can then give to anyone you like. Doesn't matter if it is a personal or a scene aspect, it is always 1 free tag. The only difference would be, who could spend a fate point to use it.

You could take a page from Fate Core idea, where you get an additional tag if you succeed with style (3 or more shifts above the target roll), or have other characters do a "create an advantage" action on that aspect, to get a tag on that aspect (again with an additional tag on a success with style).

Edit:
Of course you could justify the scene aspect for a declaration. So the "bright light" might "blind" an opponent, and you don't use the tag on "bright light" that the wizard put up, but the "blind" tag you just declared. Might be a bit cheaty though.

[Taran]

Is it a spell?  Just curious.

I think it might depend on the maneuver, but I'd think that you put the aspect on the zone and everyone who has access to it can use it, but only one person can tag it.

The other option would be to add +2 for each ally (if it's a spell).  Then each ally would have a separate maneuver placed on it to tag.

[Taran]

Edit:
Of course you could justify the scene aspect for a declaration. So the "bright light" might "blind" an opponent, and you don't use the tag on "bright light" that the wizard put up, but the "blind" tag you just declared. Might be a bit cheaty though.

I don't think it's cheaty.  The GM makes the difficulties of declarations.  If he thinks it's "cheaty" he can put a higher difficulty...or have the opponent resist it.

[Haru]

I don't think it's cheaty.  The GM makes the difficulties of declarations.  If he thinks it's "cheaty" he can put a higher difficulty...or have the opponent resist it.

Declarations aren't resisted, usually. I think as a maneuver I would have no problem with this, like I suggested above. As a declaration, I feel a bit uneasy about it, because it could be abused quite easily. Or you could just give everyone a tag and save yourself the trouble of finding a workaround, but that would make maneuvers on the scene incredibly powerful.

[Taran]

You can resist declarations...especially if you're declaring something about an enemy.  I see what you are saying...declaring things about enemies gets into more shaky ground...

But yeah...high difficulties.

I like the idea of spray attacks too.  It's how I deal with someone doing social maneuvers on crowds of people.  They have to split their result between multiple enemies.

[Haru]

Spray attacks (or spray maneuvers in this case) are great against 2 people with not too much defense in the area or 3-4 with absolutely no defense. Above that, thing will start to get really unreliable, and you'll almost always be better off with a zone attack, I think.

Would a spray maneuver on allies even be allowed? I see no reason not to, as long as you can beat the target roll, but would the RAW allow for it? It would kind of undermine the action economy, since you would be doing 2 or more maneuvers for the price of 1.
This should also be considered when looking at the original question, I think. If you want everyone to benefit from the tag, maybe do it by using it on one attack you all pile your aspects on, or tag the aspect on a block that protects the whole group.

You could also tag it for effect, so if your group was demoralized, you could do the inspire scene aspect and tag it to remove the "demoralized" aspect on all your allies.

[Taran]

It works for spell casting...(which is why I'd asked him)

+2 shifts of power for every ally you want to target.

I'm not sure how it works for straight skill maneuvers.  I wouldn't do spray attacks (specifically maneuvers) because they allies don't resist.  Part of what balances a spray attack is the fact that it lowers your attack by speading it among multiple people.

yeah, Tagging for effect to affect the whole "group" is a potential option...it really depends on how generous your GM is.  It seems lenient.

[Haru]

It works for spell casting...(which is why I'd asked him)

+2 shifts of power for every ally you want to target.

That seems totally out of whack. +2 is for a zone attack, I grant you, but a magic maneuver has a 3 shift minimum requirement. Making it +2, you'd be crazy not to do multiple maneuvers, because you gain an additional tag for one less action and one less shift. At the very least, the additional maneuvers should cost as much as the original, but I am pretty sure multi-maneuver spells are the purview of thaumturgy. I have built several characters with multi-maneuver enchanted items, for example.

Oh, this whole thing is one of the reasons I don't like evocation maneuvers the way they work under RAW.

[Taran]

Huh...I misread and made 2 mistakes:

1. You can affect every ally in a zone with only 2 extra shifts. (for some reason, I thought it was +2 shifts/ally).

2.  This is under the "block" part of evocation - not the maneuver part.  So I'll assume it only applies to blocks.

Oops.

Let me know if I haven't read it properly or if there was a change in the book (i still have the beta) ys pg. 252

[Haru]

Yes, you're right, it only applies to blocks. There was no change from the beta as far as I can see.

What's more, you don't even need to add +2 for a maneuver on the scene, you just target the scene instead of a character and that's that. Somehow I forgot that in the whole discussion. 

[Lavecki121]

The original question was more directed at a social character placing the "inspired" aspect on multiple allies. If that occurs does each ally get a tag or is it one tag and then everyone has to pay to after that?

[Haru]

One free tag per created aspect, as I originally said, yes.

[Lavecki121]

Right, but what would be the mechanic of it? 2 shifts per aspect; add 2 for the total? I'm just trying to get an idea of what my target number should be

[Haru]

Uhm no, you just roll your skill, in this case presence seems appropriate, and if you beat the target roll set by the GM, the aspect is created. There is nothing more to it, no +2 for a zone or for additional tags, the rules don't allow for that. Maneuvers are always done the same, there are no "zone maneuvers", the target for the maneuver is the zone, so if you are successful the zone will have the aspect. Or the scene, if the scene was your target. Or the tree, or your ally, or your opponent.

If the maneuver targets an enemy, or there is a justification to resist against the maneuver, you roll against another roll, instead of a fixed number. In your case, trying to inspire your allies, the opponent could defend against you placing the aspect by rolling intimidate against it, and if he is successful, the aspect will not be placed. If you tie, the aspect is fragile, as usual.

Target numbers for aspects are pretty much what you can agree on as a group. I usually go for a default of 3 and then adjust by how cool or how appropriate the aspect in question is. Or in some cases, I take a previous skill roll as a basis. If your opponent did an intimidate aspect before your turn, for example, and you wanted to remove that aspect.