Author Topic: Purview of Evocation  (Read 16526 times)

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2013, 01:25:24 AM »
I suppose I did pick it up through some kind of osmosis.
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12405
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2013, 01:30:52 AM »
Mkay.

Thanks for answering my little tangent.

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2013, 01:55:27 PM »
When you use an Evocation, does that always cause an actual physical manifestation of that element to appear from nowhere to do the task your spell intended? In some cases this makes sense and in others, not so much.

For example: I'm going to throw a fireball. Obviously a ball of fire appears in my hand, or erupts from my mouth or whatever. But what happens if I use Fire to block an attack? Does fire actually appear? Can it block any kind of attack or only those that could reasonably be incinerated? Does my Fire Block risk setting my surroundings on fire, too?

Is it a lot like "Bending" in Avatar: the Last Airbender? Does everyone need their element actually present for their magic to work (except Fire Evocateurs)?

My preference would be for the spell to do the task intended in the theme of the element without actually having to have the element manifest. Like, in my previous example of a Fire Block... could an arcane circle appear in front of the caster to deflect incoming attacks? The circle glows with a fiery light and gives off a rush of hot air, but it's not actually fire. Is that within the purview of Evocation? A water block might manifest as a translucent sphere to deflect the attack. It sounds like rushing water and smells like fresh rain, but doesn't actually get anything wet?

And when the spell does things within the purview of the element, forensic traces might reveal the presence of the element. So, if a Water Evocation is used to short out electronics, nothing appears out of the ordinary, but when the repairman opens it up to check it out, it's all wet inside or otherwise has obvious sings of being submerged in water. Or maybe I use an Earth Evocation to Hex a car. The car sputters and dies and when the mechanic takes a look, he finds sand in the engine binding up the gears or something. Maybe Harry's Blue Beetle constantly overheats because of his predilection toward Fire magic. Is that stuff doable?
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2013, 03:27:50 PM »
How a particular use of Evocation physically manifests is up to the individual user and how their own philosophy of magic operates. Harry's basic Fuego spell, for example, is typically a glowing red beam of heat/fire. Other wizards' attacks look like starbursts or fireworks. A fire shield might look like a barrier of flame, or a glowing red bubble around you.

The element in question most certainly does not have to be present. Ramierez' specialty is water, for example, and his standard attack spell appears from nowhere as a silent green blast that disintegrates his target. Thinking about it in terms of "bending" is appropriate for a particular practitioner's way of viewing his magic, but it's not at all definitive for how all wizards would use their power. You can absolutely have the effects you describe for a shield.

One thing which is fairly constant, or seems to be, is that anything manifested by magic (blasts or fire, water, etc) aren't really those things. They're formed from energy and dissipate shortly after the spell is cast. You wouldn't like find lots of water lying around after ware evocations were used, but objects might show signs of water damage, like warped paper or wood.

Hexing doesn't seem to be required to be tied to a particular element. It just makes things go wrong with technology. You could add some flavour to it that way if you wanted, though, I imagine.

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2013, 03:43:52 PM »
What you described is how I imagined it and I was curious to know if something in the rules as written contradicts my own perspective. I don't think they do. Thanks! I appreciate that sort of clarification and insight.
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2013, 04:19:32 PM »
No problem!  :)

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2013, 05:38:25 PM »
Yeah, the element doesn't really have to be present, but it certainly gives the spell a bit of color, as it well should. Otherwise you are really left with "attack spell" instead of "fireball" or "cloud of acid" and such. Just makes the whole thing much more interesting.
But as Wordmaker says, how much it will come up certainly depends on you and your group.

You should also think about backlash and fallout. Fallout from a fire spell will most certainly be different than from a water spell or an air spell.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2013, 10:21:14 PM »
I was thinking Fallout from an Earth spell would leave large portions of jagged stones jutting through the broken floor, or maybe leave crystals growing out of the walls, tremors that leave cracked ceilings and walls, or mud floes in the middle of a room. Fallout from Air Evocations would leave a place looking like a hurricane or tornado ransacked the place, maybe lightning scoring along floors and ceilings. In whatever case, the Fallout will leave a bit of explaining to do to your insurance adjuster.
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy

Offline Tedronai

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2343
  • Damane
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2013, 11:40:47 AM »
I try to colour Fallout based on the spell that has failed, beyond merely the element that spell used.
Harry's Fuego is likely to fail, then, by simply being much wider and less concentrated than intended, in a way that causes problems.
His utilitarian wind spells would fail similarly, perhaps pulling an umbrella or two, or maybe a sword-cane, to his hand along with his staff (though these spells might actually be better represented as 'minor effects' or whatever they're called).
If he tries to pull that lightning-channeling feat from Storm Front and gets fallout, I'd be likely to have the lightning branch and fan out significantly around his target.
etc.
Even Chaotic Neutral individuals have to apologize sometimes. But at least we don't have to mean it.
Slough

Offline Wordmaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 917
  • Paul Anthony Shortt
    • View Profile
    • Paul Anthony Shortt's Blog
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2013, 12:03:07 PM »
Or be fried by his own spell.  :P

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9863
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2013, 02:15:40 PM »
It might be easiest to represent fallout with an aspect on the scene, which immediately causes bad stuff to happen but can then be used by anyone.

Offline Lavecki121

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1891
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2013, 02:44:37 PM »
Or be fried by his own spell.  :P

I think that might better represent backlash

Offline cold_breaker

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2013, 04:46:45 PM »
Personally, I like the idea of making backlash hurt someone else, or somehow screw things up in a way other than directly going after the caster. For two reasons: it makes things more interesting, and the caster has the option to absorb the backlash himself. If he doesn't, it seems kind of jerkish to have it attack him directly anyways.

Offline Lavecki121

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1891
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of the Elements
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2013, 06:01:34 PM »
Personally, I like the idea of making backlash hurt someone else, or somehow screw things up in a way other than directly going after the caster. For two reasons: it makes things more interesting, and the caster has the option to absorb the backlash himself. If he doesn't, it seems kind of jerkish to have it attack him directly anyways.

You basically just described the difference between fallout and backlash.

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Purview of Evocation
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2013, 03:39:22 PM »
EDITORIAL NOTE: I changed the title of this thread because the discussion organically morphed into what could be done with Evocation on the whole rather than just using the elements. So, I figured I'd put my Evocation questions here...

Maneuvers
Can you Counterspell an evocation maneuver?

In the example, Evan Montrose puts HIDEOUSLY STRONG WINDS on the scene in order to be impressive and intimidating. Could another spellcaster have attempted a Counterspell to just cancel that out? Would this spellcaster have had to roll +7 because Evan rolled up 6 shifts of power?
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy