Non-Wizard magic-users and technology

[Wordmaker]

My "On The Run" campaign is kicking off with setting creation tonight. One of the things I'm trying to figure out is frequency and severity of compels for magic messing up technology.

At the Up To Your Waist power level, the most powerful mortal spellcaster option is the Sorcerer. YS gives Victor Sells as an example of a Sorcerer, and it's made clear that Sorcerers are people who have a lot of power, but fall shy of the requirements for membership of the White Council, and miss out on the same level of training that a Wizard receives.

So far it looks like the only mortal magic-user in the group is a Focused Practitioner who crafts enchanted items.

In the books, we see less-powerful magic-users than Harry having relatively little trouble with technology. Victor Sells didn't appear to have any major issues with it, and Mortimer Lindquist lived in a regular house, owned a television, and appeared on tv shows regularly. So would it be fair to say that Sorcerers and Focused Practitioners just don't get compels to their High Concept to cause problems with modern technology?

[blackstaff67]

Try as I might, I really can't find anything to challenge your argument.  I can only suppose the nature of formal Wizard training causes hi-tech to fail, given that a Sorceror can only have/teach themselves two refinements max. before they need formal training themselves.

[polkaneverdies]

I would only do it in times of heavy magic use or intense emotions. They don't seem to have the juice for the truly random effect.

[Magicpockets]

I would make it dependent on the total Refresh spent on magical powers. Anything 7+ is fair game for regular compels, so Mr Artificer with Thaumaturgy and craploads of Refinements does not get a free pass.

[Wordmaker]

7+ would work well, since that's the minimum Refresh cost to be a Wizard. And it means there's an added risk if the characters start increasing their power as they reach milestones. I'd still be inclined to compel less often unless a character was proving to really have Wizard-level power.

So a Focused Practitioner with some Refinements, like Mortimer Lindquist, would generally live a life free of technological difficulty.

[Taran]

I would only do it in times of heavy magic use or intense emotions. They don't seem to have the juice for the truly random effect.

Keep in mind the "power" of spells being thrown around as an indicator to when it might be appropriate to throw out a compel.  More juice = a greater chance of hexing...

The emotion part is important too because that's where they lose control on magic.

Any Fallout would be a good excuse to hex as well.

[Wordmaker]

That's true. Mortimer might just be better than Harry at keeping his feelings in check. Which isn't hard. 

[voidronin]

Just my interpretation from the books and the power section; A wizard's biology is given as the reason why they have issues with technology. Normal non-wizard practitioners don't seem to be effected unless actively working magic and supernatural casters have to deliberately hex technology. Wizard Constitution is the RPG representation of that biology and a requirement to be a full wizard. I would say that having that power would cause them to hex technology without actively using magic in addition to being able to deliberately target tech.

Though at the same time I did not see any game advantages to being a wizard over a person with just Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and stacks of refinements. Even one of my players thought about a non-wizard wizard, meaning he had no interest in the Sight, Soulgaze, or Wizard's Constitution and I am hard pressed to give him a solid reason why spending the extra points are worth it mechanically if he doesn't want to use them as actually being a full wizard doesn't seem to have any advantages over not being a wizard and might include extra mechanical disadvantages. This is purely from the mechanical view. I can sorta justify the extras for decent story telling options, unique powerful contacts, ect but losing refresh for pure story can be a hard sell.

[Wordmaker]

I like that definition, actually. Wizard's Constitution does reflect the biological differences in a wizard, especially when you consider how Butters explains Harry's "electromagnetic field."

In terms of mechanics, there are some benefits to being a full Wizard.

Straight off, you have an extra source of Fate Points from the added compels when dealing with modern technology, and compels related to the character's membership of the White Council (Harry makes it clear in YS that the only reason Elaine isn't forced to join is because she pretends to be weaker than she is, so it follows that anyone fitting the Wizard template must either be a member, or be hiding their true nature).

You also get to buy more levels of Refinement, which is the major way for magic-users to become more powerful. As blackstaff67 said, only a Wizard can buy more than two levels of Refinement, so over the course of a campaign, even a tricked-out Sorcerer with high Lore, Conviction and Discipline isn't going to be a match, magically-speaking, for a Wizard with the same amount of Milestones under his belt.

And there's a lot to be said for The Sight. It can be incredibly useful as an investigative tool.

[voidronin]

The only issue i have with my own definition is the section on actually hexing tech, heh. It is the only section that i can recall that changed every word normally used as "wizard" to "mortal caster". I feel that the section kind ham-hands the hexing / caster thing previously set up in the novels.

The fate point aspect comes from easy plot hooks. It can easily be reproduced by a creative player closely tailoring his aspects to his city themes/ faces/ threats/ troubles/ campaign goals and group-mates. The forced template tie-in just makes it easier to start.

That refinement rule has to be a house rule as it is not listed under the refinement power or either of the casting powers. I also could not find anything like that in the spell casting section. As far as the book goes (unless i missed something) anyone that takes either Evocation or Thaumaturgy can take any number of refinements for the relevant power and the only limitations i could see were maximum number of elements possible (5 traditionally) and the cap on an individual specialization bonus (equal to maximum Lore).

I agree with your assessment of the Sight. But if the player's concept doesn't have much to do with supernatural senses or paranormal investigation they become less incline to spend the refresh if there are more suited powers or stunts left to take.

[Mrmdubois]

Actually the sorcerer with evocation and Thaumaturgy can buy just as any refinements as a wizard.  The builds that only let you buy less are the the ones based on Ritual and Channeling.

That being said Wizard's Constitution basically allows for any Consequence to heal using only time as a justification, although treatment certainly speeds the process.

And yeah, the Sight is a powerful option for finding things out.

I don't recall any mentions of Sells not having trouble with technology by the way, but I don't recall any mentions of him interacting with it either.  The most we get is implied direct interaction with a telephone to call a pizza place (and that works for Harry most of the time), or an indirect interaction with a camera.  Oh, and the radio he was channeling music from into his spell, which was located downstairs probably to keep it as far from the mojo going on as possible.

Also, even supernatural entities that aren't spell slingers -can- hex, but it seems to be almost entirely under their discretion whether they do or not.  The only time I can think of where it may not have been deliberate was with a certain grendelkin which basically guaranteed Harry pursued it at least partially aware of its nature (a Compel perhaps).

So really it seems to me like you should just compel hexing at appropriate times and places where it adds to stress, or for the funniness of it.  Do it especially with Casters because it tends to be a big weakness for them, and don't forget about Hemingway via fallout or even as an unintended side effect of spells.

[Mrmdubois]

That refinement rule has to be a house rule as it is not listed under the refinement power or either of the casting powers. I also could not find anything like that in the spell casting section. As far as the book goes (unless i missed something) anyone that takes either Evocation or Thaumaturgy can take any number of refinements for the relevant power and the only limitations i could see were maximum number of elements possible (5 traditionally) and the cap on an individual specialization bonus (equal to maximum Lore).

The restriction on refinements when dealing with Channeling and Ritual is because there isn't  big enough pyramid base.  It works like the skill pyramid where each specialization is another skill point.  With evocation that gives you a starting base of three and up to five elements, and each specialization can be put into power and control of those elements.  With Channeling or Ritual you have a starting base of two, power and control.  So first refinement specialization goes into power, second into control, then the third goes into bringing either power or control up once more and then you're stuck.

[Wordmaker]

It's page 81 of YS, under the description of the Sorcerer Template. They can only take Refinement once per spell ability, so that's once for Evocation and once for Thaumaturgy.

[Mrmdubois]

Huh, true enough.

I guess how you're going to let that affect your game is going to depend on how much you let templates affect it.  Personally, I don't care for templates so I'd just ignore that particular bit.

[voidronin]

Weird for it to only be under the template. Most of my players glossed over them to get a basic idea of how to build a character then went straight for creating their own custom character according to what they wish to play. It does seem to be an artificial attachment to the template as the section of the rules it references does not impose the limit, meaning it is only attached to a sorcerer template character. Any other kind of custom caster could then take as many refinements as they have refresh for. In the end it ends up being a campaign/ GM call.