Non-Wizard magic-users and technology

[Mrmdubois]

Any custom caster who has evocation and/or Thaumaturgy you mean.

[Magicpockets]

Templates are, lIke they say, a suggestion. And more importantly, you're specifically allowed to combine templates as long as you can afford the Refresh. So that Sorcerer can always "upgrade" to Wizard.

[blackstaff67]

Until I read that more closely, my definition of a Sorceror was "Wizard that isn't a member of the White Council."  It somehow implies that unless you have the formal training, your full potential won't be reached. 

Then again, as others have pointed out, Harry Dresden is an unreliable witness /narrator.

[Sanctaphrax]

Accidental hexing has no real rules, so how badly FPs and Sorcerers suffer from it is purely a GM call.

Template restrictions are narrative, they're not a way to keep people from making overpowered characters. So the fact that Sorcerers can't Refine endlessly can't fix issues of whether The Sight is worth it.

That being said, I think The Sight is worth it. Lore +1 for magical Investigation is pretty handy, and it's a nice trump card to have against illusion stuff.

[Wordmaker]

Basically yes. Given how long the White Council has been around, it can safely be assumed that anyone with the Wizard template is either a member, or has been trained by someone who's had White Council training. Which makes sense given the setting. Any mortal with the potential to be a wizard is going to be drafted into the Council, or will have to hide from them, like Elaine does.

It's definitely a narrative restriction, rather than a mechanically-balancing one, and Sorcerers can take The Sight as well, if they have the Refresh. If a Sorcerer wanted to take additional Refinements, I'd just rule that first they have to take The Sight, to represent their growing power (Luccio comments on Harry's own Sight improving, or "coming in", when they're on Demonreach, so it's definitely partly a representation of that), after which, when they take their next additional Refinement, they change to the Wizard template. Does mean they'd need to be careful around Wardens if they don't want to be forced into joining the White Council, but that should be a concern for any powerful spellcaster.

I think that if a GM were going to allow non-Wizards to take as make Refinements as they like and not require a template change, then it's probably fair for those characters to be subject to compels for problems with technology, just like a Wizard.

[Mrmdubois]

Although the Sight that Luccio is talking about is a Wizard's ability to perceive important future events.  Speaking of it's interesting Harry hasn't had any more since SF.

Anyway, I don't think a person with the qualifications to be a member of the White Council would have to hide if he didn't want to join.  There would be a lot of different pressures to make joining look like a good idea but it's not something they can force without breaking Laws if a person is really stubborn about not joining.  In Elaine's case she has to hide because being DuMorne's student she'd almost certainy be run up on Lawbreaking charges like Harry was, and she's as paranoid about that as the White Council would be to find out about her after all this time.

[Wordmaker]

I'm not so sure. It's made very clear both in the books and YS that Elaine under-performed when Ramierez tested her for magical potency. It was specifically to hide her talent rather than her identity.

[Mrmdubois]

Yeah, because they would give her past a harder look if she showed off what she could really do.  Plus there's the backlash of her enthrallment being broken which makes her prefer to be on her own as opposed to under the "control" of the White Council.

Like Harry said, the longer she goes without turning herself in the more likely that the White Council will freak out disproportionately.  By now hiding her power is the same as hiding her identity.

[Wordmaker]

That's true. I guess I figured the White Council wouldn't be the type to leave a potential wizard unwatched.

[Mrmdubois]

They probably don't when they have the resources, but keeping tabs on someone and forcing them to join up are two very different things.

[Wordmaker]

Very true, and useful to remember for the game 

[blackstaff67]

That's true. I guess I figured the White Council wouldn't be the type to leave a potential wizard unwatched.

They'd soul-gaze her Lawbreaking butt (remember the Mind Fog spell she threw in Summer Knight?  Lawbreaker) and would at least put several Wardens on her--resources allowing, that is.  Not allowing, they'd probably take her head then and there, since they took a big hit in the Red Court War and wouldn't want to look weak.

Politics, man.  Can't look weak.

[gantrakk]

Since I have just been "reading" (audiobook really) White Night I recall something about this there.

(click to show/hide)

When Dresden thinks Helen Becket is part of the killings Abbey the precog talks about mobile phones and how with her modest power hers works most of the time and Dresden comments that if Helen has a mobile phone she at leased wasn't hiding a bigger talent.

I would guess to the white council bit that since player characters are probably going to be quite powerful and so will have pressure to join and the simple act of refusing will immediately put them under a lot of suspicion. I mean they are the white council who doesn't want to join, clearly it is because they are hiding something they don't want the council to know therefor they must be a warlock.

[Wordmaker]

That's exactly what I was thinking, gantrakk, on both points. Weaker magic-users are safer around technology, so I'll be compelling accidental hexes less.

[blackstaff67]

Actually, The Sight as Harry has it does give some minor visions of the future if you re-read Storm Front as he sees Victor's Lakeside house for the first time.