Question about Luck Magic

[JeffVandenberg]

How would you model luck magic in DF RPG? It seems like it would be a maneuver effect for Evocation, particularly for the mage that does it on the fly. The choice of element would then affect how that luck is actually achieved.

Related, does this touch somewhat on the question of keeping to the traditional 5 vs not for evocation that I see in another thread.

[JDK002]

It would probabaly fall under the catch-all element of Spirit if you're sticking to the 5 element rule. 

But really I don't know if you would want to model this with the magic mechanics.  As it would be pretty much restricted to Maneuvers, which isn't the best use of magic. 

Thematically it's kind of awkward too, as it's not really luck if you have to activly cast it by using up an action.

I would personally make it more of a "passive" power, maybe like once per scene the player gets a free declairation and subsiquent tag, regardless of how outlandish or improbable it would seem.

[Mrmdubois]

Don't forget the metaphysical applications of other elements, winds of change for air, or fire's purging ability for a "reset" of the odds, etc.

[fantazero]

Luck sounds like an Aspect and not a power, just saying

[Mrmdubois]

It could be a power but yeah it tends to be expressed in Aspects or affecting die rolls on the player level.

[Sanctaphrax]

Luck magic is totally possible with Thaumaturgy. They even do it in the novels.

And I'd totally allow Luck Magic as a form of Sponsored Magic.

Dunno about doing it with Evocation, though. It seems too technical, and I'm not sure how well luck manipulation would translate into the standard Evocation effects.

PS: There are some custom Powers you might want to look at on the list. Here, I'll pick them out for you.

(click to show/hide)

CHAOTIC FATE [-0]
Description: For whatever reason, the randomness of your life is much greater than normal. Your personal bell curve is pretty flat.
Skills Affected: All
Effects:
Chaotic Fate. All of your rolls are made with six fudge dice instead of the standard four.
Aura Of Chaos [-1]. All rolls made in your presence are made with six fudge dice instead of the standard four.

ORDERED FATE [-0]
Description: For whatever reason, the randomness of your life is much less than normal. Your personal bell curve is pretty pointy.
Skills Affected: All
Effects:
Ordered Fate. All of your rolls are made with two fudge dice instead of the standard four.
Aura Of Order [-1]. All rolls made in your presence are made with two fudge dice instead of the standard four.

CONTROLLED FATE [-1]
Description: You can control probability to a limited extent, making life more or less predictable through magical power.
Skills Affected: All.
Effects:
Fate Control. Whenever you roll, you may choose to roll any number of fudge dice between two and six.
Aura Of Control [-1]. Whenever someone in your presence rolls, you may choose to have them roll any number of fudge dice between two and six.

PROBABILITY MANIPULATION [-3]
Description: God's dice are loaded in your favour. Your luck is literally supernatural.
Skills Affected: All
Effects:
Weighting The Dice. Whenever anyone in your presence rerolls dice, you may "lock down" one of those dice. Doing so ensures that the result of that die is the same on the reroll as it was on the original roll.
Palming The Cards. Whenever you are involved in an opposed roll, you may cause your opponent to reroll by invoking an aspect.
Fixing The Wheel. You may take a point of sponsor debt instead of spending a Fate Point when invoking an aspect in order to cause a reroll or when making a Declaration that has to do with random chance. Sponsor debt taken this way represents accumulated bad luck, karmic backlash, or the build-up of paradoxes in the structure of reality.
Stacking The Deck [-1]. Whenever anyone in your presence rolls dice, you may cause them to reroll by invoking an aspect.

[Mrmdubois]

An evocation for luck magic...I could see that being every action is actually a Declaration perhaps?

I "attack" by having that passing car hit a pothole and swerve towards the target, Weapon 5 Discipline 6 or whatever.

[Vairelome]

In general, evocation is concerned with relatively brute-force, straight-line manipulation of various types of energy.  Manipulation of luck is outside of that, so it wouldn't normally be something you could do with evocation.

Every possible effect falls into some part of thaumaturgy, however, and one of the most notable aspects of Sponsored Magic is introducing new themes and permitting those themes to flavor evocation far beyond the standard limits of energy-manipulation (up to and including thaumaturgy within the sponsored theme being usable with the speed and methods of evocation).

If you want luck magic to use on the fly, the best way I can think of is modeling through Sponsored Magic.  The alternative might be making a crafter that stores luck-based effects in enchanted items or potions.  Standard Evocation with no mods won't work under the RAW, though.

[Lavecki121]

Someone in one of my games is doing this actually.

[Mrmdubois]

In general, evocation is concerned with relatively brute-force, straight-line manipulation of various types of energy.  Manipulation of luck is outside of that, so it wouldn't normally be something you could do with evocation.

It depends on what you consider a straight line of manipulation.  Water is the element of entropy and as such can be justified for creating effects that lead to decay by increasing chances or the probability of something breaking or entropy being held off and used for protection.  How can that be modeled in the combat options of evocation?  Pretty easily.

Other elements can be justified for probability manipulation in much the same way with a little creative thinking.

The main thing will be to create narrative justification for it, which really isn't that hard.

The things you'll be able to do to manipulate probability or luck or entropy or whatever will be fairly straightforward and simplistic though, since you only have the four options of attack, block, counter spell and maneuver.  The effects will also be short lived, because hey it's evocation.  For more complex or longer lasting effects then yeah, Thaumaturgy will be what you're going to use.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the caster who wants to use a touch of subtlety and roll a spell to alter the roll of some dice at a casino.  Maybe a maneuver to create an Aspect that can be used in a social conflict by fate giving him the hint about what's the right thing to say.  Cast a block that changes the "chances" of being hit offensively in combat or any number of applications.

[vonpenguin]

  The alternative might be making a crafter that stores luck-based effects in enchanted items or potions.  Standard Evocation with no mods won't work under the RAW, though.

I actually did this for a short lived game awhile back. It was basically an enchanted item that stored a set number of shifts, I think one less than the character's lore or maybe half, it's been awhile, that could be used to alter a result on a die one step. Worked fairly well as I recall.

[cold_breaker]

Another way to look at this is to look at the background. There are different flavours of luck - astrology? Something with a more Irish bent perhaps? Chaos theory? Probability?

I have a player who's using luck magic that he doesn't really understand, so I basically get a free call on where it comes from and such. It's kinda cool because he's tied the source into one of the main threats of the game, and then the group has given me artistic licence on what the threat is (mostly), so his magic will actually give me an opportunity to gradually provide hints until I'm ready for the big reveal. At the same time, DF has set rules of how it works mechanically, so he can't be screwed over mechanically by my artistic license. Win/win in my mind.

Anyways, the point is, this "luck magic" has to have a source (or charactor aspect) - work from that!

[JeffVandenberg]

After discussion with the player, evocation was ruled out as being appropriate for this and that it would be better modelled with a Luck oriented Aspect or a 0-1 point Power.

@Sanctaphrax thanks for the list for list for further inspiration.