Cloak of Shadows

[Tedronai]

True, and I thought I'd addressed that. If the block had been overcome, it would have vanished. It didn't, but for the wizard, it is just as if the block had been overcome, since it doesn't apply to him anymore.

For the duration he keeps the Sight open, yes, but remember, we're talking about opening it, then closing it, then taking action based on what it revealed.  At which point the wizard has, metaphorically, exited the wards and is attempting to break back through them.

Yes, but you could still make declarations about the interior, based on what you have seen. Granted, the more time passes, the higher the chances they would be wrong, but in this case, we are talking about split seconds on a target that has to move carefully, thus slowly.

It is my understanding that the Sight may only be closed at the end of a player's turn, after they have defended against the intensity of the visions, and only if that defense is successful.  Assuming I am correct in that interpretation, any action taken based on information revealed by the now-closed Third Eye would be inherently suspect.
And they could have made Declarations about the scene whether or not they had opened their Sight, so that's not really relevant.

Also, I don't think there is a reason for the wizard to not cast with his sight active. Other things might be negatively affected by the sight, but his own spells? I don't think so. I might increase the intensity he has to defend against when closing his sight, but not block his magic because of it.

YS224: "actions other than perception [...] will all face a block"

Clearly, the block representing the intensity of that vision was not so great as to unduly hamper Harry's ministrations.

[Mrmdubois]

Just to chime in with an example from the books, Harry's duel in Changes near the end right before the really big fight takes place almost entirely with his Sight open because she kept veiling herself.  That along with what's already been discussed points pretty strongly to being fully capable of using your magic without hindrance while the Sight is open sans eldritch abominations.

[Dr.FunLove]

And in the case of the skinwalker...I think it was just a case of Harry's psyche having never encountered something like that before. A hundred years from now (if Harry were to make it that is) Harry might be popping skinwalkers head's off with laser beams, while using his Sight, while doing a handstand.

[Tedronai]

That along with what's already been discussed points pretty strongly to being fully capable of using your magic without hindrance while the Sight is open sans eldritch abominations.

All it points to is that 'sans eldritch abominations', Harry has sufficient control of his magic (by that point in the books) to make effective use of it in a combat situation.  'Without hindrance' is too strong a conclusion to draw from the information available, particularly when it directly contradicts an explicit statement within the rules.

[narphoenix]

All it points to is that 'sans eldritch abominations', Harry has sufficient control of his magic (by that point in the books) to make effective use of it in a combat situation.  'Without hindrance' is too strong a conclusion to draw from the information available, particularly when it directly contradicts an explicit statement within the rules.

^Have you seen Harry's Discipline? If he was facing any real block, he'd have gotten his clock cleaned against Arianna.

[Tedronai]

A block of 1 is still a block.  As is a block of 2, or 3, or 4.
All we can surmise from that scenario is that whatever impediment was levied by the distracting influence of the Sight was not so great as to cause Harry to fail in his endeavors.

[Dr.FunLove]

In reading the rules on YS225, the language to me that strikes me as most important is: "While the Sight is active, you may take actions
other than perception, but these actions will
all face a block (page 210) with strength equal to
the intensity—unless they “cooperate” with the
Sight in some way."

If it can be justified that the actions are working in concert then there is no block. If they don't, then apply the block. Utilizing the Sight to smoke out hidden attackers and smite them seems to fall under "in concert".

[Tedronai]

If you don't want to be distracted by The Sight while peeling carrots, be sure to veil them first.
/sarcasm

[Dr.FunLove]

@Tedronai
Well when you're running the game you can state that doesn't fall under cooperating then, eh?

[Tedronai]

Just to clarify, you wouldn't find it absurd to avoid, say, a 4-shift block levied by the Sight by placing a 1-shift veil on the target of your attention?

[Taran]

As I stated previously, I agree with Tedronai.  Just because something is hidden or veiled does not mean the sight causes no block.

If a certain action is impossible without having the sight open, then I might consider it a case where the sight "cooperates with the action", otherwise, a block against said actions.

It would certainly help you discover a veiled target(perception check), and assuming you succeed on your lore roll, it might allow that check to automatically succeed.  It would be hard to target someone with a spell or attack action....

Remember that the sight is not,  "hey let's see what's hiding". It's a spiritual vision of the world around you.  Anything you see needs to be interpreted to even make sense.

You are being spiritually and psychologically attacked by the vision you are witnessing...

All that is gonna get in the way.

In this case i would just consider Harry's description in the books of how distracting it is to simply turn it on and look at the city streets. It seems to be a dubious proposition to me that you are going to have the concentration to wield the energies of creation while doing it.

Also This.

[Dr.FunLove]

I'm not sure that's a really good...example? Why would placing a veil on a carrot just to see the carrot even happen? Just peel them, boil them, and throw some brown sugar on the whole thing...sheesh. 

Also, if I am reading correctly, your example is saying that someone would overcome the block aspect of The Sight by throwing a veil on something - in that case wouldn't they be casting the veil through the block? The two actions don't seem to be working together, in that case the block would apply. This is ultimately up to the GM of course - I would hope a table could agree on what constitutes cooperative actions with the Sight though.

However, if someone is attacked by an invisible force I would find it acceptable to open The Sight, identify said force, and then have the ability to counter it while the Sight is open without the block applying. Those two actions seem to cooperate to me and, per the rules, is allowable.

Do you have an issue with the cooperation rules? Do you believe the block should always apply?

@Taran
Except when it doesn't, as per the rules and whatever the GM/table agrees to. I believe the difficulties should still be roleplayed even if the block is not applying as per the rules on YS225. Just because you CAN pull off the action with comparitive ease doesn't mean you still aren't wrestling with the sight of existence laid bare - and of course, there's always the aftermath.

[Taran]

I'm not sure that's a really good...example? Why would placing a veil on a carrot just to see the carrot even happen? Just peel them, boil them, and throw some brown sugar on the whole thing...sheesh. 

Also, if I am reading correctly, your example is saying that someone would overcome the block aspect of The Sight by throwing a veil on something - in that case wouldn't they be casting the veil through the block? The two actions don't seem to be working together, in that case the block would apply. This is ultimately up to the GM of course - I would hope a table could agree on what constitutes cooperative actions with the Sight though.

However, if someone is attacked by an invisible force I would find it acceptable to open The Sight, identify said force, and then have the ability to counter it while the Sight is open without the block applying.

You're confusing the carrot example.  He's saying if you have the Sight open it'll be hard to peel the carrot.  By your reasoning, you could throw a veil on the carrot and it'll be easier to peel.

Let's use your "invisible force"

Situation 1:
Say you are attacked by 2 people.  Neither are invisible.  You have your Sight up for whatever reason and haven't closed it.  To attack those enemies, you are facing a block equal to the strenght of the sight.  Right?  Says so in the rules.

Situation 2
You are attacked by 2 people.  1 is invisible and one is not.  You can now see both because you opened your sight.  Now neither are invisible because you have your Sight open.  Why do you suffer a block against the non-invisible target, but not suffer a block against the invisible target?

[Dr.FunLove]

@Taran
Not by my reasoning...like at all. The rules say a cooperative action can bypass the block - adding a veil when your already in the Sight just to peel said carrots doesn't seem like it cooperates. In that case, I would just tell the player to close the Sight then peel the carrot.

Unless it's a carrot from another reality and he has to have the Sight open to peel it and if he doesn't peel it the world will end. Then I might allow it.

You would be able to perform an action against them if the action cooperated with the Sight per the rules/GM/table agreement. If not then you have to deal with the block. So says the rules.

Also, the invisible party still gets a shot at defeating a person with the Sight's attempt to see them yes? Or is the Sight an instant ISEEYOU button?

[Taran]

My impression of the Sight is it shows you the world "as it truly is" (which is why it bypasses veils and let's you see wards etc..)  but our puny mortal minds cannot handle the intensity of such visions - hence the reason you are bombarded with a psychological attack every round you keeep it open and hence the reason you need to interperet the vision you are witnessing.

So yes, I see it as a ISEEYOU button - assuming you succeed on your Lore check to understand that you are looking at a guy hiding in the shadows using CoS and not just a miriad of mezmerizing colours...also assuming your mind survives the vision you just witnessed.