Author Topic: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice  (Read 9350 times)

Offline McNulty

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2013, 03:39:41 PM »
Oh, but those are so much fun. My campaign is currently in the middle of a Groundhog Day-esque time loop (I'm having a lot of fun dramatically killing people off repeatedly).

Oh I'm sure they are, for the players. My group is such a devilish bunch that even normal time continuums get me off guard every time. So just to keep that little bit of sanity intact, I'll do my best to avoid time slips.  8)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 03:41:24 PM by McNulty »

Offline polkaneverdies

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 03:47:40 PM »
Glad to hear it.
I think We forumites reacted zealously to the initial post, before taking a breath to try a more helpful explanation.
The reason is quite simple. It is very easy to overlook how powerful Beast change is.
All of the numbers in this game are very small. The impact difference between skill level 1 and skill level 4 is huge. For 1?(blanking on actual price)refresh you can have a character who happens to be the most knowledgeable, most connected, or richest flip a switch and be a complete monster slayer. That is a massive advantage.
Virtually every other character type has to make hard decisions between combat vs out of combat skills. Shifters don't.

If you want some examples just check out the play by post ooc threads. Many games have a shifter and most  of those shifters human forms have maxed non combat skills.

Offline McNulty

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 03:56:36 PM »
For 1?(blanking on actual price)refresh you can have a character who happens to be the most knowledgeable, most connected, or richest flip a switch and be a complete monster slayer. That is a massive advantage.

I can see this now. As I mentioned I have wonderful group of players and they inherently steer away from min-maxing, so the balance issue wasn't so clear to me. The PC in question is actually a street urchin/thief type that can turn into a crow.

Offline polkaneverdies

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 04:07:22 PM »
Street urchin/ crow

Clearly secretly scheming to be the next god king of the Dresden world. ;)

Offline McNulty

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2013, 04:09:21 PM »
Clearly secretly scheming to be the next god king of the Dresden world. ;)

Oh aye and he's autistic tendencies to boot.

Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2013, 04:50:36 PM »
Maybe take Aspect "I'm the offspring of Hunin/Munin?"
My Purity score: 37.2.  Sad.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 04:54:06 PM »
Yeah, aspects are the only thing that come close to things like racial bonuses/penalties--and even then, they cost a fate point to actually capitalize on that bonus.

So, to correct my previous statement, a vampire can get a boost to a speed or strength roll just for being a vampire, but only if he has a fate point to spend on it.
Compels solve everything!

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Offline JDK002

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 05:46:55 PM »
It's probably worth noting that another reason everyone is saying not to give out powers for free is that the game balance tends to fall apart at higher refresh levels (around 15 or 16 I would say).  There's a reason they only go up to 10 refresh for character power levels, and suggest giving out refresh levels very very sparingly.

Giving out powers for free expidites this issue, possibly causing it from the very outset.  On top of this you are giving players a surplus of fate points, which can throw off the natural compel/invoke tempo between players and the GM.

Dr.FunLove

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 06:31:45 PM »
#Game Balance
Can't the GM simply craft a story where the threat level is equivalent to the strength of the player characters, thus avoiding this imbalance? It seems like the seems is balanced, but overall has a reliance on GM/player agency (in crafting stories, in regards to Fate). Is there some inherent flaw that causes imbalance?

Offline JDK002

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 07:03:29 PM »
#Game Balance
Can't the GM simply craft a story where the threat level is equivalent to the strength of the player characters, thus avoiding this imbalance? It seems like the seems is balanced, but overall has a reliance on GM/player agency (in crafting stories, in regards to Fate). Is there some inherent flaw that causes imbalance?
In the context of this thread and my above post: It's mote a matter of balance between players.  A 16 refresh wizard or werebeast is far and away more powerful and capable then a 16 refresh pure mortal.  Where as a 6 refresh game the power gap is less between say a focused practitioner and a pure mortal.

The issue in terms of this thread is giving a were-crow wings and diminutive size for free in a 6 refresh game effectivly make him a 9 (or is it 10?) refresh character.  Which causes problems with balance because either A. The players who are playing legit 6 refresh characters have a hard time keeping up and end up on the sidelines, or B. The players you give free powers to dominate the game, C. All of the above.

Dr.FunLove

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2013, 07:09:44 PM »
The latter issue is a matter of fairness - a six refresh game is a six refresh game. The player who is playing the were-raven will have to make do until the appropriate milestone.

In regards to the former: right, but in the game where the 16 refresh mortal is trying to hang with the big boys then they just have to be more...clever. Yes, of course there is a gap in metaphysical power but that doesn't make the mortal at the same refresh level ineffective.

EDIT: I was just trying to assess if you believed there was a blatant systemic flaw to the game system JDK...you know, for knowledge!

Offline Haru

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 07:34:25 PM »
And where do you draw the line? Do you need to buy Claws for a wereraven in order to actually have them even though you are a bird, etc. Or a beak. Or a trunk for were-elephant (ok that's a joke but you get the meaning I hope).
I've interpreted it more like this:
If you use beast change to turn yourself into an animal, you are in the shape of that animal, no questions asked. In your case, you are a raven, a tiny bird with wings, claws and a beak. Can you use them effectively? Absolutely not.
To be able to use your wings, you need the wings power, otherwise, they are decorative.
If you want to inflict more damage in physical combat because of your beak and claws, you need the claws power. You could get by without it and use your claws for non-combat stuff, but the damage bonus would be denied.
You want to use the fact that you are tiny to your advantage? Get the diminutive size power. Otherwise you are too set into your human ways of thinking and are not able to use your new size to your advantage.

By the way, a were raven with maxed out stealth is awesome :)
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Dr.FunLove

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2013, 08:15:01 PM »
If you change into a thing...shouldn't you be possess it's basic characteristics? Unless we're saying "oh, you're a bird now but you don't have knowledge of flight" then at your next refesh "you have conquerored flight, take the Winged ability". Otherwise...it's kinda wierd to be a bird that can't fly - it's essential to the nature of the thing.

Offline Haru

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2013, 08:19:35 PM »
You possess its basic characteristics. You just don't know how to use them. If I hand you a pilots uniform and you wear it, could you fly a plane?
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Newbie GM looking for PC-related advice
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2013, 08:34:15 PM »
Otherwise...it's kinda wierd to be a bird that can't fly - it's essential to the nature of the thing.
Tell it to the ostrich, the emu, and the kakapo. ... Granted, the kakapo is pretty odd.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast