Magic Motorcycle

[Quantus]

Well lets look at what a supernatural motorcycle could give a player, over what mundane equivalents would offer.  Offhand I can think of:

-Mobility: Can Drive on walls/water/etc
-Flight:  Can ignore gravity entirely, and move freely in 3 dimensions.  Movement rate, maneuverability, etc is otherwise unchanged.
-Travel:     Has a high Top Speed and Endurance, or some other mechanism (NN travel, time dilation, etc) to facilitate speedy long distance travel
-Maneuverability:  Has increased Speed and Handling, making it more maneuverable than a mundane bike.  Enough to make it useful in combat situations
-Offensive ranged Attack:  Comparable to a Shotgun, so cost would be based on that as a benchmark
-Availability:  The bike makes itself available within reason, but through supernatural means (IE is it always outside and waiting for you whenever you need it, comes when you whistle, etc)
-Summonable: The bike can appear out of thin air, even in the middle of a courtroom or a fall from an airplane.
-Stealth: Can operate silently, for the stalking of prey.
-Camouflage: Offers supernatural veiling function of some degree.
-Non-traditional Consumables:  Does not require Gas or Ammo, but has some other basic needs that must be provided for (ie.  Must be turned loose to hunt the weak and feeble prius’s/prius’/Prii?   [Damn Correspondence Course], is powered by moonlight and must bath in it, or must be struck by lightning once a month, etc)
-No Consumables: Does not require gas/ammo/feeding to function.   
-Sentience:  Has some level of intelligence, from basic animal instinct, to a limited ability to understand basic spoken instructions, to full-on Knight-Rider talking vehicle with snark. 


And from there you tweak the other limitations.  Can you loose control of it?  How long does it take to activate/invoke/summon?  How long can you keep it active?  Is it obviously Supernatural, so it will cause a stir in public? 

[HumAnnoyd]

In our game we kept it pretty simple which is usually a good thing but I think the nebulous nature of the thing has ended up giving the player a pretty potent IOP for cheap.  It is treated as an enchanted item taking up slots for the character's magic.  This is what we have:

SLEIPNIR THE MOTORCYCLE
Maneuver for Aspect ‘Mind of its own’ 3 at 2x use per session. Maneuver for Aspect ‘Fast as the wind’ 3 at 2x use per session.

Now he hasn't really used it to drive up walls although it has traveled over water and been fairly important to the game.  In fact it has been a bit too powerful for the small amount of character resources invested into it.  At least in my opinion. I wanted it to be an item of power when the character was proposed but the GM at the time decided on this.  I think it only take up a couple of enchanted item slots which seems really cheap if you ask me.

[Sanctaphrax]

Not sure how that could be overpowered. It's bog standard maneuver stuff.

Unless you're saying enchanted items in general are too good?

Anyway, pretty much everything on Quantus' list looks pretty easy to stat to me. As I said before, the mundane motorcycle stuff is the tricky part.

[HumAnnoyd]

Sorry. I am not saying that what I listed is overpowered.  In play we end up giving the player a lot more ability because of the story of it more than the actual mechanics that we used.  Probably because of the mundane motorcycle part.  It is mostly just an issue with how we are handling it more than anything.  Which is why I asked what you guys would suggest out of curiosity.  I feel that it would be best handled as an IoP but was voted down in the discussions. 

[Sanctaphrax]

In play we end up giving the player a lot more ability because of the story of it more than the actual mechanics that we used.

Overpoweredness is probably inevitable, then.

I think it would help to define what a mundane bike can do. Then you can be clear on what needs to be paid for with FP/Refresh.

[polkaneverdies]

Occasional compel for the magic to hex it at a crucial moment.
Assuming that your game happens between ww2 and present day, mortal magic wreaks havoc on technology. Everyone once in a while that needs to blow up in his face.

[Tedronai]

Occasional compel for the magic to hex it at a crucial moment.
Assuming that your game happens between ww2 and present day, mortal magic wreaks havoc on technology. Everyone once in a while that needs to blow up in his face.

Those are compels.  Compels, in their presence or their absence, equally, are net-neutral events.  They are not a tool for game balance, but are there to provide compensation for narrative events that enhance the story as a whole at the cost of a particular character's convenience.

[polkaneverdies]

I agree Tedronai.
HumAnnoyd's problem with his fellow player's bike is narrative rather than system though. The system in place is no that impressive. His group is just ignoring it when it would "make a cool scene" and it seems to be rubbing him the wrong way. Having it occasionally crash and burn would address the issue.

[Quantus]

Well, it is a horse in motorcycle form. You can always have it get pissed, or injured, and run off for a little while.  It could even be a hook for a whole side adventure, recovering and/or repairing it. 

[Tedronai]

I agree Tedronai.
HumAnnoyd's problem with his fellow player's bike is narrative rather than system though. The system in place is no that impressive. His group is just ignoring it when it would "make a cool scene" and it seems to be rubbing him the wrong way. Having it occasionally crash and burn would address the issue.

Having it occasionally crash and burn without compensation would address the issue, but that's not what is typically referred to by the term 'Compel' (and applying Debt retroactively just so you can Compel it right at that moment is what is referred to be the technical term 'a dick move').

What needs to be done going forward is to actually charge FPs, or, if appropriate, Debt, for those 'cool scene' benefits.  THIS would actually address the balance issues (without being a jerk about it).

[polkaneverdies]

Tedronai please reread the post that first drew a response from you.
I didn't say screw him over without compensation.
I said compel him to have his magic hex his motorcycle.
At that point it either pulls a blue beetle and he gets a fp or he pays a fp and gets to save the day.

Either way humannoyed can't railroad the player with the motorcycle because he isn't the gm. All he can do is raise the issue with his group.

[Tedronai]

Tedronai please reread the post that first drew a response from you.
I didn't say screw him over without compensation.
I said compel him to have his magic hex his motorcycle.
At that point it either pulls a blue beetle and he gets a fp or he pays a fp and gets to save the day.

Either way humannoyed can't railroad the player with the motorcycle because he isn't the gm. All he can do is raise the issue with his group.

I did read it.
Adding new complications (Compels) along with appropriate compensation (FPs) will not actually affect the problem of separate unpaid-for benefits.

[HumAnnoyd]

Either way humannoyed can't railroad the player with the motorcycle because he isn't the gm. All he can do is raise the issue with his group.

Umm.  Well actually I do GM the game it just isn't my turn right now.  And I am not in the habit of railroading characters thank you very much. 

This issue isn't a huge deal to me.  I was curious how others would handle it since it was brought up in this topic.  Yes I think the player has received a very powerful item for next to no cost.  Compelling it to fail around magic won't work because A.) It is a magical mythical horse in motorcycle form and B.) the player uses Sponsored Odin magic which wouldn't necessarily hex stuff like mortal magic. 

Well, it is a horse in motorcycle form. You can always have it get pissed, or injured, and run off for a little while.  It could even be a hook for a whole side adventure, recovering and/or repairing it.

And this gives me food for thought for my next run as GM. 

I think it would help to define what a mundane bike can do. Then you can be clear on what needs to be paid for with FP/Refresh.

I guess the issue isn't really that big a deal overall.  I was just hoping to see some alternate ways to handle it so I could make a proposal to the group about it.  This seems like the best suggestion so far I think.

[Polarbearguy90]

In my game, he is not starting out having his bike magical. His character is a gear head made wizard, specializing in bikes. He generally only uses earth evocation and greatly prefers thematurgy over evocation. As a gear head he mostly makes magic items The bike in question is a 1940s era Harley. Once I figure out how hes going to pay for it, either refresh(that he will earn over time) or enchantment slots I am going to bring it up in game. I like the idea that the engine becomes powered by a spirit of fire,  he may meet and get the loyalty of it in game through some means.

[S1C0]

just give it modular ability and a weakness to thresholds and call it a homunclocycle a man bike if you would