EvoThaum Focus Item

[Lavecki121]

Yea thats why I'm saying that. I guess I can see what you are saying though and that makes sense. However that goes back to a previous thread I saw about specialization. If I have to take a focus item that is evocation element then I should be able to take a specialization in that particular "element"

[Dr.FunLove]

@Lavecki
Thanks for that...per that and the novels, thresholds are the preferred anchors - but like everything in the Dresden-verse metaphysical system, there is no absolutes. Just gotta roll with it, just roll with it!

[Dr.FunLove]

#Evo-thaum Focus Items:
If we're using Thaumaturgy Focus Items in Evo-thaum and the shifts of power for the spells are using the complexity as a base would the complexity bonus on Focus Items be applied to the power in Evo-thaum? Or, since it's being skipped, does an Evo-thaum spell not benefit from that bonus?

[Taran]

That's the problem with having it go across the board.  It only works for control because control easily translates from thaum to evocation - they both use discipline.

Power/complexity uses Conviction/Lore. 

So, if you're going to go the model that sanctaphrax suggested, then you'd use the speed of evocation and the method of thaumaturgy - Discipline and Lore because that's what your foci are based on.

If you're going with the model that Tedronai suggested, which is both speed and method of Evocation you'd use conviction and discipline.

Lastly, you could have your foci cross over (lore for thaum - conviction for evo) but you specifically have to lock in your foci that I don't think it should work that way.

It's one of the major issues I have with it going both ways.  I think it's easiest to decide if your foci affect evocation or if they affect thaumaturgy.  That way way you use evocation methods you use your evo foci and when you use your thaum methods you use your thaum foci.

Yea thats why I'm saying that. I guess I can see what you are saying though and that makes sense. However that goes back to a previous thread I saw about specialization. If I have to take a focus item that is evocation element then I should be able to take a specialization in that particular "element"

Well in your specific case you have sponsored magic AND evocation - which allows a specialty.  I think, since you have a new "element" open to you, you could take that as a specialty...although, I'm not sure how this affects refinement.  At the very least your specialties would only be applicable for evocation since sponsored magic doesn't specifically allow specializations

[Dr.FunLove]

@Taran
I agree that is apart of the issue - in my mind though, if you're creating an Evo-thaum Foci then it would have to apply ONLY to the Sponsored Magic. Build it as an Evocation foci for, lets say Summer Magic and it benefits Summer's Evo-thaum (or Summer only evocations).

The only issue with this solution is when you tack on Evocation and Thaumaturgy - some people might feel like the Evo-thaum foci becomes a "wasted" slot.

I feel that is the solution I am going to go with myself (I am building a faerie with Sponsored Magic at the moment) unless I see something that convinces me otherwise.

EDIT: Another issue that could come up is overlap here: so for example, Summer Magic is wrapped up with the Element of Fire - so does a faerie with Fire Evocation get both bonuses or just the greater of the two (a la YS)?

[Taran]

How is it a wasted slot.  You only get 4 foci no matter what kind of magic you have.  They all apply to one of the types of magic.  It's not superhumanely powerful but It's certainly not wasted. You get 4 like everyone else.

Here's a question:  Do the foci from evocation HAVE to be set toward evocation and the foci from thaumaturgy put towards thaumaturgy?

Or can you have 4 foci (from 2 separate powers) go towards evocation, for instance.  Because this would be the advantage of sponsored magic.  Your foci could go into either.

Also, as I mentionned above, the advantage of taking thaumaturgy and evocation is the bonus elements you get  in addition to the ability to specialize in your sponsored element.

The bonuses from summer fire gets stacked on to the bonuses from fire specialization, I would think.

My biggest complaint is the sheer number of bonuses you get.  Lets count:
+4 evothaum control focus (counts as 4 focus slots) compare to a wizard trying to get the same bonuses:

+4 Veil control(4 slots)
+4 evocation spirit defensive control (4 slots)
+4 evocation spirit Offensive control (4 slots)

His 4 focus slots are the equivalent of 12 focus slots for a normal wizard.  This is 4 refresh worth of refinements.  Don't you think that's a bit much?

[Dr.FunLove]

@Taran
You don't have to try and convince me, I have no feeling on that particular point one way or another!

I would imagine that, Summer Magic acting as fire magic as it can, that one would just take the Summer Magic foci and only take additional Evocation foci for their other Elements. That seems more logical in this scenario eh?

[Taran]

I'm not sure.

[Lavecki121]

Ok so say I take my foci into simply Attack chronomancy +4 as opposed to thaumaturgy like you are suggesting Taran. Now since sponsored magic gains the ability to "Color" my existing evocations, am i allowed to use this bonus for all attacks of evocation that I can tie into my 'colored' elements?

[Dr.FunLove]

Well, your Sponsored Magic is Time Manipulation yea? So in this scenario, the foci would apply to the Element of Time and the Evo-thaum of chronomancy. But in this case, it also wouldn't apply to your other Evocation Elements - they just color it for some effect (like a lightning bolt that's out of step with time, for example).

[Taran]

Yeah, so your offensive chrono attacks would receive a +4 control boost.  Therefore your chrono armour and defensive blocks would not be enhanced by the +4.  It would also mean that you wouldn't get that bonus when doing full blown thaumaturgy. 

Re-reading it, I can see it interpreted either way as Sanctaphrax mentionned.  This would make your power would be the target number to avoid the spell and your control roll wouldn't be a target roll, just a roll to not take damage(exactly how thaumaturgy works).  The advantage is the foci would also work with normal thaumaturgy.

I can see it working both ways and be balanced in both scenario's

[Dr.FunLove]

Pretty much...though how you're getting a nice point-and-boom spell out of something like Time I'd be interested in seeing. Thaumaturgy other then the Sponsored Magic chronomancy would need their own foci as Taran stated.

So, using my running example: Summer Magic Foci would +1 Offensive Evocation Power/Evo-thaum Biomancy Power.

[Taran]

Pretty much...though how you're getting a nice point-and-boom spell out of something like Time I'd be interested in seeing. Thaumaturgy other then the Sponsored Magic chronomancy would need their own foci as Taran stated.

So, using my running example: Summer Magic Foci would +1 Offensive Evocation Power/Evo-thaum Biomancy Power.

Yup.  Anything that falls under the "element" Summer sponsored magic would gain a +1 offensive boost.  Like making plants grow and entangle people or changing them into toads...which I assume is offensive biomancy?

[Dr.FunLove]

I think it would be more like...malform their arm or add a tail. I've never interpreted biomancy as being transformation in the "POOF you're a toad" kind of way. But maybe I'm screwed up mentally...


EDIT: Nope, not screwed mentally...shapeshifting is an element of it, but healing is the big boy in biomancy. So in the Summer example they could perhaps Evo-thaum some claws-up.

[Lavecki121]

What about a focus item that works for thaumaturgy but when used in an evocation specific way must be determined what it is. So basically in this instance i would get a +4 thaumaturgical focus for chronomancy but it could only be used for offensive evocations of chronomancy? I dont know if that is very balanced but its more balanced than getting a +4 for all evocations