Relations between Summer Court and Black Court

[Magicpockets]

Hi all,
in our last gaming session, a discussion came up regarding Summer Court and Black Court. The other players argued that as Summer Knight, my character would not condone wiping out the Black Court, reasoning that Summer stands for life and that even the undead have the right to live. I, on the other hand, have called shenanigans, and stated that (other than the Winter Court) the Black Court is anathema to everything Summer stands for, and that as Summer Knight, my character is likely to support their eradication.

What do you people think about this matter? And yes, this is partly related to this, although I fear such discussion may derail this thread.

[Tedronai]

As Summer Knight, and thus a mortal possessing free will, your character may support or reject any stance you see fit.  The stance of your Court is another matter.
I, personally, would suggest that their inclinations would be towards the destruction of such abominations, but ultimately, such matters rest with the Table.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd say that, as a whole, Summer wouldn't give a fuck. Everything has its predators, mortals included, and the Black Court are just one more...but on the other hand, sometimes species die, and the Black Court have failed to adapt to a changing environment, so they're on the way out anyway.

As an individual, your character can believe whatever he wishes, and given Titania's and all of Summer's belief in 'the wisdom of the heart' and going with your gut, the Court's pretty likely to back the Knight's choice to a fairly strong degree.

[blackstaff67]

Black Court Vampires are NOT alive.  They are dead.  Corpses animated and filled with unholy energy that see Humanity as food.  The Undead have ceased living.  At least the White Court vamps (technically alive from what we know of them) procreate through more recognizable means (carry and give birth to live young, etc.).  They are not part of the natural cycle of Nature as a Summer Fae would understand it, especially given that Summer would be about life, light and growth. 

[Lavecki121]

Yea i agree with black staff, if their argument is that you should be pro life, black court are not alive. But yes your character has free will, you could go on a rampage and kill all of the black court if you wanted, there may be repercussions, but you can do it

[JDK002]

I tend to agree that Summer wouldn't mind seeing the Black Court gone.  They aren't alive, they don't promote life and growth.  They kill, and kill, and kill, more so then we've seen Winter do in the books.  If Summer has no problem killing agents of Winter, they certainly wouldn't be against killing Black Court.

Honestly, the counter arguement your players are giving is rethoric that makes no logical or canoncal sense.  It would mean that summer would be against killing anything and everything, and we know from the books that the Summer Knight has no problem throwing down against supernatural baddies.

[UmbraLux]

What do you people think about this matter?

Have you read Cold Days yet?  It goes into the Sidhe courts' motivations in some depth.  Simply put:

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Winter exists to protect reality from Outsiders and Summer exists to limit Winter's power within reality.

Unless they're meddling in the larger game, the Black Court are simply part of reality.  Predators and dangerous at the individual level but no danger to reality as a whole.

So the existence or nonexistence of any particular vampire court doesn't directly impact the goals of either Sidhe court. 

That should leave it to personal motivations.  Are any aspects relevant?

[Magicpockets]

Thanks for the responses so far, people! Glad so many agree with me, almost thought I was wrong on the issue.

I have read Cold Days, and remember that part. As for personal motivations, here are my character's aspects, in the order they appear on my sheet:

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Ex-Venator Summer Knight
Flirting with Power and Danger
Mom was a Summer Sidhe, Dad was a wizard, Stepdad was an evil bastard
Protective of what I hold dear
An Ice Person
Wearer of the Trickster's Collar
I've got a bad feeling about this...

[polkaneverdies]

Woj has stated that everyone (which would include the sidhe) resented how powerful the black vamps became.
That was before the stokerlypse but the speed at which their powerbase can grow was a large part of the problem everyone had with them. I doubt very few major players would be sad if the final blacks were taken out.

It certainly sounds like Your fellow players are pulling shenanigans just to save Catherine the great.

[Taran]

Do the accords play into this?  Can you just kill another signatory of the accords without repercussions?

Could you use the accords to solve any issues?  A duel?

[Mrmdubois]

Taran has a really good point, is it legal to off the Rukh in the proposed manner?  If no you could always back down for now and maneuver to set her up like Bianca did to Harry.

Or just back down for now and get her later period.  It seems like each of you has stuff going on behind the other's backs, so adding another level of intrigue can't hurt, an open confrontation is likely to go south at the speed of light.

[Deadmanwalking]

Combat between accorded parties seems acceptable. After all, the Reds were at war with the White Council and still abiding by the Accords circa Death Masks. So...yeah, that seems okay as long as it wasn't done while an invited guest or something.

[Taran]

That was officially sanctionned war.  Harry started the war because he blew up bianca's mansion against the letter of the accords.  There was a peace or cease-fire prior to that.

[Vairelome]

If you look at the descriptors and affinities of Summer Magic, you find a fairly large percentage of the banes of the Black Court.  This should be relevant, if not necessarily dispositive.

[Magicpockets]

Taran has a really good point, is it legal to off the Rukh in the proposed manner?  If no you could always back down for now and maneuver to set her up like Bianca did to Harry.

Doubt that's gonna work. The Rukh is one of the strongest, if not the strongest Black Court Vampire in existence, and has displayed patience and cunning. In a fair fight, there's no way we are gonna take her even if we work together, and right now, the party is split. Right now, she is weakened, after suffering a major thaumaturgical attack that filled her hunger track and physical consequences. If we are ever gonna off her, it's now or never.