Enchanted and rote block extensions

[Deadmanwalking]

Ah ok. But the consensus is that I can keep a rote spell going just not an enchanted item correct?

Yep. Rote spells are still you doing the pushing, as Mr. Death put it, so there's no reason you couldn't.

[Dr.FunLove]

Agreed. Thanks for the analogy Mr. Death!

[Mr. Death]

Quite welcome. It's what I do.

(Admittedly, the analogy breaks down when you remember that a practitioner can squeeze another use out of an enchanted item by spending mental stress, but what can you do?)

[Dr.FunLove]

Why we're all here debating merits of spells-casting and such, I have a point of interpretation I need cleared up: if I cast a spell, lets say a block, and I want to extend it by, lets say 3 exchanges how much mental stress would I take if my Conviction is 3 (control roll is made for the sake of the example).

[Lavecki121]

one if you succeed on the control. If you fail the control you have to take fallout/backlash and would only have the spell last the difference.

[JDK002]

Why we're all here debating merits of spells-casting and such, I have a point of interpretation I need cleared up: if I cast a spell, lets say a block, and I want to extend it by, lets say 3 exchanges how much mental stress would I take if my Conviction is 3 (control roll is made for the sake of the example).

Just one stress if I'm not mistaken.  The power for that particular action doesn't exceed your conviction.  You don't add it on top of the power already in the spell, since you've already successfully controlled and released it.

[Dr.FunLove]

Huh...well, my hats off to Lavecki for pointing this out to me in another thread. I've been a bit more heavy-handed with stress in my understanding of it.

[Vargo Teras]

For those arguing that enchanted items shouldn't be extendable through normal means: could it be extended through another expenditure of the same item? Or would an enchanted item that extends one specific spell (either a rote or another enchanted item) be permissible?

[Lavecki121]

Extending the effect through another use of the item would be ok. It would just be very repetetive. Unless you made the item with at least a durration of 2 to begin with.

Not sure about the second one.

[JDK002]

IT'S possible, but as already pointed out, it's a bit redundant unless the effect was specifically made with extension in mind.   As you're still using an action and a charge to do the exact same thing.

[toturi]

I think the more appropriate analogy for an enchanted item is a windup toy, hence I disagree with the consensus. You wind it up and you let it go. As the toy goes on, you can keep winding it to keep it going.

[Mrmdubois]

To rewind a wind up toy you will inevitably cease it's unwinding.  In the analogy this means stopping the enchanted item, resetting it, and then activating it again.  In no way are you extending the energy usage or output.

When you get an extra use out of an enchanted item by taking mental stress does that require an standard action?  Assuming it does then at that point I see an enchanted item as identical to a Rote.  You take mental stress and your turn for the exchange, the action economy is preserved and the energy is coming from inside you right then and there symbolized by the mental stress expenditure.  If all that remains true then I don't think it would be a terrible problem to have the enchanted item go off with a regular use and then take a point of mental stress the next round to extend the effect.  Maybe that gets wonky with the ability of enchanted items to do Thaumaturgy though, I don't know.  Maybe you could mitigate it by expecting it to extend the effect for only a number of turns up to your Discipline like a real Rote focused on extending duration.

By the way, when you create a Rote that extends duration does it do that for only one designated spell or for any spell it's used on?  I don't see it really being game breaking to do the latter except becoming incredibly useful in its utility.

[Deadmanwalking]

When you get an extra use out of an enchanted item by taking mental stress does that require an standard action? 

Mechanically? No. Indeed, it takes no action. Activating the item takes whatever action it normally requires, completely unmodified by the fact you're taking Mental Stress.

Thematically, it represents, at least IMO, the sort of reflexive, possibly desperate, pouring of power into an empty well to make something work which doesn't quite have the juice to do so on it's own. It doesn't even work on items with uses left, and that makes perfect sense in my head. As does the inability to extend it as per Evocation. I know exactly why this makes sense to me, but I'm tired and words aren't coming. Maybe in the morning.

By the way, when you create a Rote that extends duration does it do that for only one designated spell or for any spell it's used on?  I don't see it really being game breaking to do the latter except becoming incredibly useful in its utility.

The rules are unclear, so GM call, but I'd allow it. You have a limited number of Rotes after all, and burning one on this means you don't have it for anything else.

[Mrmdubois]

That makes sense to me I was just wondering.  Although I'm not sure I wold agree that it's always a desperate measure thing.

[Deadmanwalking]

That makes sense to me I was just wondering.  Although I'm not sure I wold agree that it's always a desperate measure thing.

Oh, it's not. Just sometimes. Like I said: words...failing.