Author Topic: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite  (Read 23476 times)

Offline Griffyn612

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[All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:09:19 AM »
There was a WoJ somewhere (I can't find it now) that talked about how he repetitively uses words for characters, in order to quickly invoke a particular recognition in the reader.  He talked about silver eyes and others for Thomas, as well as other Wamps.  The boards have noticed that mildewy and stale seem to be associated with Cowl's gates.

What I decided to look for was common usages of the terms applied to Outsiders, now that we've had more direct exposure to them.  This isn't a definitive theory, so much as pointing out the possibilities. 

KEY WORDS
The following words and combinations are commonly found describing Outsiders, Outsider magic, and mordite from the outside:
 - 'cold and greasy'
 - 'cold and oily'.
 - 'familiar'
 - 'nauseating'
 - 'cloying'
 - 'slithered'

Evidence
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Analysis
First, the world cold is used to describe pretty much every dark magic in the series.  So I only considered the word cold noteworthy when in combination with the other words.  The same goes for slither, and all its variations.  It has been used widely, whereas others, such as oily and greasy, are only used to describe people's hair or particular types of dark magic.

My opinion is that we may be able to differentiate those who have been infected by the use of these key words in the description of their power.  Or the lack there-of, in some instances.

The Usual Suspects
Kravos - Infection Possible.  There were a multitude of times Harry felt Kravos' power, including consuming some himself, but only this instance of feeling 'naseuating' power.  The other descriptions are closer to the dark, emptiness used to describe Mavra's style.
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Mavra - Infection Unlikely.  While described as cold, the dark and empty connotations aren't used for Outsiders specifically, except for the speculated emptiness around Raith, and the emptiness around Mordite.
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Bianca - Infection Unlikely.  While she may very well have been infected, the words used to describe her magic are like those of Mavra.  It's not condemning, like those used to describe Outsiders themselves.
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Elaine - Infection HIGHLY PROBABLE.  Elaine uses magic several times in SK and WN, but the only time she uses magic for evil is when she casts the mind fog.  In that instance, Harry notes feeling almost every single key word for Outsiders.  What's more, he picked more of that same feeling (for the first time) when he returned home and found her under DuMorne's compulsion.
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Thorned Namshiel - Infection Possible.  We know that Mab has assumed Namshiel worked with the other Infected to attack Arctis Tor and free Lea.  In one instance of his magic use, Namshiel was described with some key words.
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Arianna - Infection Possible.  A key-word combo was used for her magic in Ch.  We know she had ties to Bianca, who had ties to Cowl & Kumori.  Whether they somehow managed to get Arianna infected is questionable.
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The Well - Outsider Imprisonment Possible.  Several key-words were used to describe the power of the Well in CD.  Whether this was due to some Outsiders being imprisoned there, or simply a combo of all of the evilness, is up to interpretation.
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Cowl - Infection Doubtful.  Despite having personally helped infecting Lea, and knowing of Outsiders working with Ramps in DB, Harry's description of Cowl's magic specifically points out the lack of the tell-tale key-words.
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Kumori - Infection Doubtful.  Same for Kumori.  Harry notes the lack of nastiness when it comes to her power.
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In Conclusion
For me, the most condemning was Elaine's use of the mind fog.  The others aren't too bad, with only one or two words in common.  But Elaine's exposure under DuMorne, combined with the mind fog description, almost matches Outsider descriptions perfectly.

Make of it what you will.  If we include the emptiness and darkness used to describe mordite and Raith's protection, then maybe Mavra and the others are infected as well.  Or maybe there are only so many words that JB can use to describe nasty black magic, and there's no correlation.  My current guess is that there's something to it, but we won't know for sure for a while.


Offline Second Aristh

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 01:14:40 AM »
There was a WoJ somewhere (I can't find it now) that talked about how he repetitively uses words for characters, in order to quickly invoke a particular recognition in the reader. 
It was from Jim's LiveJournal, not on here.  Here's an excerpt (more here:  http://jimbutcher.livejournal.com/ )
(click to show/hide)
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Ziggelly

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 02:41:11 AM »
Ohh... I like this.
Now I get to read through all the Elaine chapters again with even more paranoia in my mind.
Excellent.

Offline rekshek

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 02:44:02 AM »
Thank you for putting this together, really interesting, will use this as a guide to look forward in new books :P.

Offline Sue

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 04:39:46 AM »
Thank you for putting this together, really interesting, will use this as a guide to look forward in new books :P.
Interesting insights ... they make sense too. I think I'm going to read Jim's Live Journal now ... thanks!
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Offline Mortax

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 05:04:29 AM »
You've got my vote. :)

There was some discussion on the similarity to the feeling of the events in PG with the fetches and the fog in summer knight some time ago.  I've always been suspisiouse of Elaine.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32157

Your conclusions convince me even more.

I mean, an ex returned from the dead, that appears helpful?

Anna Sheridan anyone?

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Offline madness

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 05:07:29 AM »
Interesting plan and interesting theories.

The overlap between Harry's description of dark magic and Outsider magic is so great that I don't know that we can distinguish between the two using keywords. :(

Offline Mortax

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 05:10:40 AM »
Whose to say there isn't a huge overlap on purpose?

After all, trafficking with outsiders and opening the outer gates are seen as black magic.
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Offline peregrine

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 06:01:38 AM »
Isn't there a reference to familiarity when Cowl opens up his gate in the Deeps, re: the musty, stagnant smell?

Offline Mortax

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 06:03:10 AM »
I can't remember if it's there, or when Peabody opens his gate.  (Which would likely be a reference to that one.)
Laa shay'a waqui'n moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine

If you go to Chichen Itza....You will Die. -Rashid the Vorlon

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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 06:10:00 AM »
Isn't there a reference to familiarity when Cowl opens up his gate in the Deeps, re: the musty, stagnant smell?

He says something about it feeling familiar to what he felt in Mexico either when Cowl first opens the gates or late in the battle IIRC.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 07:06:52 AM »
Isn't there a reference to familiarity when Cowl opens up his gate in the Deeps, re: the musty, stagnant smell?

Harry describes almost everything bad as slightly familiar.  But the key words for Cowl's gates are mildew and such.  And the same is used for Peabody's gate location.  That's one of the reasons I think they worked together.

Offline madness

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 11:42:02 AM »
That description of Corpsetaker's magic sounds Outsider related.  I didn't catch the specific references on my last re-read. :(

Offline Elegast

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 12:27:10 PM »
So you're saying that Cowl and Kumori are not infected?
My "Maeve came to Splattercon!!! disguised as a vampire" theory : Maeve did it

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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: [All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 12:48:19 PM »
So you're saying that Cowl and Kumori are not infected?

It looks more like he's saying that it's doubtful they're infected really. ;D
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