Evo-thaum what?

[Dr.FunLove]

So...I just need the generally accepted uses of Evo-thaum. I'm in the dark here! Sort of speak: I'm still getting a bit turned around by the term.

Any answers or links to answers would be much appreciated!

[Tedronai]

Check out the 'shell game' sidebar in YS in the vicinity of rules introduction for evothaum.
It acts as Evocation with the Thaumaturgy theme (or function) in place of the element.  See the Evocation section for what mechanical actions it can perform, and the Thaumaturgy section for inspiration as to the form those actions might take in the narrative.

[Dr.FunLove]

I've been under the impression that this applies to only Sponsored Magic. Does this apply to any practitioner?

[Tedronai]

Sponsored Magic is the only method presented in YS to achieve 'Thaumaturgy at Evocation's Speed and Methods', but the same rules would apply equally to any other method of achieving the same.

[Mrmdubois]

Yeah, Evothaum only works with Sponsored Magic.  It's possible to get self-sponsored magic, just check the list in the Resources page for examples of those.  Of course that costs additional Refresh.

[Dr.FunLove]

Understood.

The condrum for me here is time in regards to Thaumaturgy. There are certain spells, per the novels and logic, that fall under Thaumaturgy but would actually work similar to Evocation in the sense of be instant or "very quick" (examples: quick veils, simple or fast illusions, pscyhomantic powers in line of sight). In making my own Thaumaturgy spells, how is this issue typically handled?

Thanks for the help so far!

[Mrmdubois]

Quick Veil, it's a Block against sight, so Evocation.  Simple Illusion, it's a Maneuver or a Block depending on what you want, so Evocation.

Quite a few of the more "complex" things that you want to be able to do with Evocation's speed can be worked out via Blocks and Maneuvers.  The main thing will be to come up with Narrative justification.

Psychomantic powers that hit the Mental Stress track are considered kind of overpowered by some.  Unless you had something more specific in the way of mental whammies that's really all I have to say about that.

Thaumaturgy will most easily cover stuff that's more complex than a Block or Maneuver, and/or that is meant to last longer than a typical Evocation.

[Tedronai]

Psychomantic powers that hit the Mental Stress track are considered kind of overpowered by some.  Unless you had something more specific in the way of mental whammies that's really all I have to say about that.

I will add that they are strongly implied in YS to be available to users of Spirit evocation/channelling.  Whether they SHOULD be is a matter for each gaming group to decide amongst themselves.

[Dr.FunLove]

So...Thaumacation? 

Essentially, if a spell follows a narrative logic that it could/should/would be instant, than it's just a matter of being creative with Evocations rules when applying it to a Thaumaturgical area of magic. Anything bigger, badder, or longer and that's Thaumaturgy as the RAW.

Keep it simple stupid and just let it flow, yes?

[Mrmdubois]

Yeah, basically.  When you've done it a few times you should start getting the feel or what's evocation or thaumaturgy.  Heck, even before then it's not really that hard.

Say I want to "conjure" a knife to chuck at somebody, straight attack with your flavor of element, justify it with narrative, "I have the Earth Element so I call up my power and it takes the form of a knife that shoots out of the ground at my target." It's a straight attack either way so you're fine.  Now, if you wanted to try and satisfy a Catch with that it might get iffier, and the GM might say you weren't able to summon the Iron or whatever.

[Dr.FunLove]

Agreed. I believe I have allowed myself to get caught up in the semantics of it. Appreciate all the tips though!

[Mrmdubois]

No problem, and there are plenty of even more informative and helpful people to be found here.

[Deadmanwalking]

I will add that they are strongly implied in YS to be available to users of Spirit evocation/channelling.  Whether they SHOULD be is a matter for each gaming group to decide amongst themselves.

While this is debatably true, the creators of the game have stated that this wasn't their intent, and the only psychic attacks in combat we've seen in the books involve Kemmlerian Necromancy, which does give Psychomancy evothaum.

[Mrmdubois]

Either way it's been argued to death.

[Hick Jr]

You know, there was an excellent suggestion by Sanctaphrax to start a "Lawbreaker Discussion" or "First Law Discussion" thread and just redirect any Lawbreaker arguments that sprang up to that thread. Psychomantic evocation might be another good "Argued to Death" thread.