Shutting down a spell caster

[Deadmanwalking]

Nope.

It explicitly works as a compel of an aspect.

Right...but it being an Aspect isn't why it's 26 shifts...it's 26 shifts because it actually kills you and is purchased as such, the Aspect is incidental to the cost and primary function of the spell and is compelled repeatedly until you're dead.

[Mr. Death]

No, the aspect is the mechanism. It says right out that it's compelled, and that causes the attack. In which case, if you have a fate point, you're immune unless someone else keeps invoking it against you.

[Deadmanwalking]

Like, say, the caster? Or literally anyone who ever attacks you? Or anyone who makes a Lore Assessment being able to taq it?

My point is that the cost of the spell is based on the fact that it makes a 26 shift attack. The fact that it uses an Aspect to do that is basically immaterial to the original argument, which had to do with normal maneuver spells.

[Mr. Death]

And my point was that it's a single aspect spell with a lot of shifts--aka, a lot of time and effort put in by the caster.

[Deadmanwalking]

And my point was that it's a single aspect spell with a lot of shifts--aka, a lot of time and effort put in by the caster.

But that's the thing: It's an attack spell and built as such, so if your players are doing it, they don't have to make it Aspect based at all. No spell to kill someone needs to be. A spell actually built just to inflict a single Aspect will never be that big.

[CrispyXIV]

But that's the thing: It's an attack spell and built as such, so if your players are doing it, they don't have to make it Aspect based at all. No spell to kill someone needs to be. A spell actually built just to inflict a single Aspect will never be that big.

Right.

So unless I'm missing something, the advantage to the Aspect based spell would be that it can be compelled until either it works, or someone does something to remove it (IE, Shirou jumping in front of Nicodemus' curse), correct?  The disadvantage being that it can be dodged/manipulated like an Aspect until then... via Fate points.

An attack, you just have to Defend.

[Deadmanwalking]

Something like that, yeah.

I'm a little skeptical that it's actually got real advantages...but then, you don't have to do it that way.

[JDK002]

In a case f a single aspect thaum ritual, you can't just spend one FP to buy out of the whole thing.  Which is how every post it making it sound.  The aspect being placed is not a compel, everything that happens due to the aspect is a compel. 

This is a perfect set up for players to get clever.  They either force the target to bleed himself try of FP, or accept the compel.  Clever players would try to stage a fight to force FP drain, while focusing entirely on defense.  Take off, regroup, and him the big bad knowing he has no FP left and can't fight off the aspect from the ritual.

[Sanctaphrax]

But that's the thing: It's an attack spell and built as such, so if your players are doing it, they don't have to make it Aspect based at all. No spell to kill someone needs to be. A spell actually built just to inflict a single Aspect will never be that big.

Remember how I was complaining about the examples in the book a while back?

Nonsense like this is the reason.

[Tarion]

This is a perfect set up for players to get clever.  They either force the target to bleed himself try of FP, or accept the compel.  Clever players would try to stage a fight to force FP drain, while focusing entirely on defense.  Take off, regroup, and him the big bad knowing he has no FP left and can't fight off the aspect from the ritual.

The example that jumps to mind is the fight in the Aquarium in Small Favor. A ritual that shuts down all casters in the area, represented through an Aspect on all of them, compelled whenever they try to cast? 

Harry running out of juice is him spending his last Fate point and being forced to accept the compel.  Everyone else is able to buy out of it for longer.

At least, I think that example works.  I'm not sure how else I'd model that situation. 

[Tedronai]

The problem with that representation being that Harry likely had the highest modified refresh value among those practitioners assembled, and takes a boatload of compels on a regular basis.  I just don't feel that it's likely that he would have had the smallest pool of FPs available to him out of that group.

[Mr. Death]

Possibly that spell was a massive block against magic use, and Harry pulled a series of maneuvers he tagged for effect during the fight to get around it.

[Deadmanwalking]

Possibly that spell was a massive block against magic use, and Harry pulled a series of maneuvers he tagged for effect during the fight to get around it.

A bunch of navel-gazing ones with Conviction and Discipline, yeah.