Brainstorming a Power: The Benefits of Experience

[Sanctaphrax]

Lily was kind and charming, but manipulative. That's Rapport, Empathy, and Deceit right there.

Her enormous power makes her very dangerous, which easily justifies a decent Intimidation skill.

That leaves Presence and Performance. Her power and general social acumen guarantees a decent Presence, and she was a professional model once.

So I'd say she doesn't have a social skill below Fair. OW is more or less with me there.

Actually, yes. Driving, Burglary, Scholarship, Craftsmanship, Might, and Guns. All off the top of my head, should all be Average at best, and Mediocre in many cases.

She's a faerie. Supernatural strength and grace, right? That should cover all of those.

To some degree, sure. But it doesn't help you speak Etruscan or Ancient Sumerian, nor does it help you shoot a gun right.

Who said anything about languages? And it does help you shoot a gun right...remember what Harry said in Cold Days about Sidhe grace and aim?

Okay, what about the Senior Council? They don't strike me as all having Average or Fair Might, just for example, and surely you don't argue Kincaid's a higher power level than them?

Much better example!

(Even though they're actually old enough to have Inhuman Experience more-or-less by default.)

Still, there's no Senior Council member that's definitively bad at anything. The Merlin may never wrestle, but he's ancient and he's got supernatural vitality. Plus he's generally badass.

So while I'd be fine with a Merlin that has Mediocre Might, it doesn't bother me at all to have a quirk of game mechanics give him Fair Might.

Good would be too much, though.

[vultur]

Her enormous power makes her very dangerous, which easily justifies a decent Intimidation skill.

I disagree. That gives her "context of power", but does she know how to use it? I doubt it.

She's a faerie. Supernatural strength and grace, right? That should cover all of those.

Certainly not Scholarship. Probably not Craftsmanship or Burglary, there's a lot of "knowledge" there.

 Also, what makes you think Lily has supernatural strength? Aurora didn't - Harry could physically hold her down & keep her away from the Table.

(Sure, she was dying... but holding down a dying Rampire or Blampire would be super dangerous. Aurora strikes me as no stronger than a human her size.)

Also, Aurora was killed by ordinary pixies (Fair Weapons). If she has Inhuman Speed, her Athletics is probably Average or Fair.

[Sanctaphrax]

I disagree. That gives her "context of power", but does she know how to use it? I doubt it.

If you're capable of killing a dude, you can just tell them that and that'll scare 'em. Anyone can be scary, given enough Power and the willingness to use it.

Certainly not Scholarship. Probably not Craftsmanship or Burglary, there's a lot of "knowledge" there.

Oops, didn't see Scholarship on the list.

But I figure her attunement to the mind of Summer can cover the knowledge stuff if need be. As can training from Summer.

Her being a Fair scholar is about as plausible as her completely blanking on basic math questions. I could go either way, honestly.

Also, what makes you think Lily has supernatural strength? Aurora didn't - Harry could physically hold her down & keep her away from the Table.

(Sure, she was dying... but holding down a dying Rampire or Blampire would be super dangerous. Aurora strikes me as no stronger than a human her size.)

Also, Aurora was killed by ordinary pixies (Fair Weapons). If she has Inhuman Speed, her Athletics is probably Average or Fair.

Essentially all fae are magically strong. So are their Knights. It'd be pretty weird if Lily wasn't. Even if she doesn't have Strength (DMW's write-up says she does), she's almost certainly stronger than she was as a mortal.

And both OW and DMW say she has Speed.

Aurora's death was really just weird. She went down like a punk.

That being said, Strength and Speed only give +1/level to wrestle and dodge. Even Supernatural in both could be matched with one FP.

So you could justify her death game-mechanics-wise if you wanted to.

[Deadmanwalking]

@Sanctaphrax:

I could go through a whole thing on how I disagree and why on each point, but it all basically boils down to the fact that I do disagree. Not everyone with vast power is also good at everything. Some are, some are not. I find the idea of the Merlin being as strong physically as, say, Bily Borden ridiculous, and don't think grace (even inhuman grace) makes one inherently better at, say, driving a car. If it did, wouldn't everything with Inhuman Physical stuff get certain skills for free? The justification just falls really short.

As for Aurora, I always interpreted that as the Little Folk having gotten the drop on her (with something like Epic Stealth...a thing they can do easily, and Harry being very distracting) and hitting her simultaneously with a dozen or more attacks at Weapon 1 while her Defense was at Mediocre. That's an average of what, a dozen 2 stress hits that ignore her Toughness powers? That'll kill almost anything.

[Lavecki121]

I feel like there should be a limited version of this, a "catch" of sorts to weed out knowledge or strength type skills for various people. If I want to play a 1000 year old creature who has never learned to read I still want him to be able to have the benefit to his strength based stats, even though his knowledge ones would be lacking.

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmm. Scholarship also covers knowledge of history, as well as number of languages, so I'd be disinclined to allow a character of great age to ignore it altogether...but if you grab Not Keeping Up With The Times you could easily be illiterate, as that wasn't a needed skill in many eras. Grab it as part of an Aspect and take compels when it's a problem.

On the more physical end, I guess I could whip up something like 'cloistered academic'...except that anyone who was that cloistered probably doesn't have the wide skill range this Power represents, no matter how old they might be, just high Lore and/or Scholarship.

I am tempted to do a generic 'I lack this skill' rebate...but it doesn't seem like one skill would be enough, so I'm still thinking on how to stat it.

[Lavecki121]

You could always represent the rebate by a refund in SP as apposed to FP

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmm...maybe, but it'd have to be pretty low considering...perhaps I'll do something like that. Let me think.

[Lavecki121]

That may be true but even if I have inhuman experiance and I drop one skill, that enables me to put one skill up another level. (If we go off of the one to one basis which probably isnt true) But if Im willing to min 3 or 4 skills to push up 1 or 2 others, that may be worth it.

[Sanctaphrax]

I could go through a whole thing on how I disagree and why on each point, but it all basically boils down to the fact that I do disagree. Not everyone with vast power is also good at everything. Some are, some are not. I find the idea of the Merlin being as strong physically as, say, Bily Borden ridiculous, and don't think grace (even inhuman grace) makes one inherently better at, say, driving a car. If it did, wouldn't everything with Inhuman Physical stuff get certain skills for free? The justification just falls really short.

Billy has Inhuman Strength. Plus his Aspects are suitable to displays of strength. He's definitely stronger than the Merlin.

But the Merlin is very strong-willed and experienced. And that alone can get you pretty far. So he might well just be Fair at wrestling/lifting.

Bear in mind that Fair means exactly that. It's not exactly impressive.

And if you don't believe grace helps you drive, you should probably drive sometime.

People with Powers don't get skills for free, but as a general rule they should take skills that fit their Powers. It'd be hard to justify Mythic Speed and Mediocre Fists, for instance. You could probably do it with pacifism or total incompetence, but as a general rule skills and Powers are correlated.

As for Aurora, I always interpreted that as the Little Folk having gotten the drop on her (with something like Epic Stealth...a thing they can do easily, and Harry being very distracting) and hitting her simultaneously with a dozen or more attacks at Weapon 1 while her Defense was at Mediocre. That's an average of what, a dozen 2 stress hits that ignore her Toughness powers? That'll kill almost anything.

Like I said, you can justify it mechanics-wise.

But it was nonetheless really lame. She got completely owned by rather weak opponents. And not because of some epic plan, it just sort of happened.

[Deadmanwalking]

Billy has Inhuman Strength. Plus his Aspects are suitable to displays of strength. He's definitely stronger than the Merlin.

I meant in human form.

But the Merlin is very strong-willed and experienced. And that alone can get you pretty far. So he might well just be Fair at wrestling/lifting.

Bear in mind that Fair means exactly that. It's not exactly impressive.

It kinda is, actually. It lets you lift, say, 200 lb people without difficulty...that's not unimpressive, and not something I see the Merlin as capable of casually.

And if you don't believe grace helps you drive, you should probably drive sometime.

Reaction time matters more and yet Inhuman Speed gives no driving bonus...

People with Powers don't get skills for free, but as a general rule they should take skills that fit their Powers. It'd be hard to justify Mythic Speed and Mediocre Fists, for instance. You could probably do it with pacifism or total incompetence, but as a general rule skills and Powers are correlated.

Some skills, sure...but not ones requiring actual training. At least, IMO. Not every high Speed character has Guns or Driving, for example.

Like I said, you can justify it mechanics-wise.

But it was nonetheless really lame. She got completely owned by rather weak opponents. And not because of some epic plan, it just sort of happened.

I disagree, Harry just kept throwing things at her till something worked. That seems valid and fun to me.

[narphoenix]

Plus, the little folk thing was very planned. It was a lot more planned than anything Harry had up till that point.

[Sanctaphrax]

It kinda is, actually. It lets you lift, say, 200 lb people without difficulty...that's not unimpressive, and not something I see the Merlin as capable of casually.

Actually the table represents what a character can lift with all of their effort. Not without difficulty or casually.

And I don't find that at all impressive. There's a chance that I might even be able to do that, and I don't think of myself as strong.

Reaction time matters more and yet Inhuman Speed gives no driving bonus...

Some skills, sure...but not ones requiring actual training. At least, IMO. Not every high Speed character has Guns or Driving, for example.

It's not that you absolutely have to have the skills together with the Powers. It's just that they'll tend to go together. Someone really fast will more often than not have at least some ability to dance/fight/drive.

I disagree, Harry just kept throwing things at her till something worked. That seems valid and fun to me.

Not gonna argue over it any further, since it's been way too long since I read that book for any proper discussion. But I remember thinking "wow, that's a letdown" when I read that bit.

[Deadmanwalking]

Actually the table represents what a character can lift with all of their effort. Not without difficulty or casually.

Nope, it's what they can do without rolling, which is to say, fairly casually (though perhaps with effort).

And I don't find that at all impressive. There's a chance that I might even be able to do that, and I don't think of myself as strong.

Right...but are you physically in your 60s? The Merlin is.

It's not that you absolutely have to have the skills together with the Powers. It's just that they'll tend to go together. Someone really fast will more often than not have at least some ability to dance/fight/drive.

Oh, I don't dispute that, I just dispute that such powers are sufficient justification in and of themselves.

Not gonna argue over it any further, since it's been way too long since I read that book for any proper discussion. But I remember thinking "wow, that's a letdown" when I read that bit.

I did not have the same experience. Let's leave it at that. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Keep in mind that each level represents what a character can lift by expending all of his effort

Right...but are you physically in your 60s? The Merlin is.

He's also incredibly experienced and just generally capable. Lifting technique is a thing that you can practice.

And he's an incredibly determined guy. He knows what he wants and he does what he has to get it. That alone'll make him significantly better at literally everything than a lot of people. Because a lot of people don't know what the hell they are doing or why. Period. They're just adrift.

You know how Batman's ridiculously good at everything? Well, he represents this idea taken to a pretty silly extreme. The basic premise is that if a person just got off their ass and really tried, they could be better than you and I. To some extent this is actually true.