A Question about Catches and Toughness

[Mr. Death]

Yup. Check the WoJ archive. This, more than anything, is why it's damn near impossible to weaponize it.

Items exchange with true love seem to bypass that--Lara has a scar from picking up a wedding ring, for example, and there's Thomas's scarf from Justine.

So it can be weaponized, it's just that the items that are typically given as tokens of true love aren't usually weapons (though I was half-planning to have Inari Raith use a necklace given to her by Bobby wrapped around her fingers as an improvised weapon in one of my scenarios...)

[Deadmanwalking]

Items exchange with true love seem to bypass that--Lara has a scar from picking up a wedding ring, for example, and there's Thomas's scarf from Justine.

So it can be weaponized, it's just that the items that are typically given as tokens of true love aren't usually weapons (though I was half-planning to have Inari Raith use a necklace given to her by Bobby wrapped around her fingers as an improvised weapon in one of my scenarios...)

Also, unless you happen to be in love or have some very understanding White Court friends to experiment on, it's gonna be really difficult to know which wedding ring or scarf will work and which won't. True Love isn't exactly that common, per the descriptions given.

[Tedronai]

Items exchange with true love seem to bypass that--Lara has a scar from picking up a wedding ring, for example, and there's Thomas's scarf from Justine.

Yes, some tokens exchanged between individuals experiencing mutual True Love suffice to serve as the Catch for members of House Raith, but not all.
And how does an outside observer know which token will serve as the Catch, and which will fall flat (or even which couple is actually experiencing mutual True Love and so might provide such a token)?  Heck, how does someone IN one of those relationships know?

Identifying the Catch as being True Love doesn't do you much good if you can't identify True Love in the world.  Being on a beach littered with diamonds doesn't do you much good if you can't distinguish them from the sand.

[vultur]

What about Justine's gift for Thomas? He only touches it while wearing gloves, and I doubt it's because of feeding.

In the books, it seems that contact with symbols of True Love always burns Raith Whampires, but contact with people in True Love only burns them if they try to feed.

But for some Whampires (Madeline with anybody, or Thomas specifically with Justine) they can't touch without trying to feed...

[Sanctaphrax]

Which isn't the way it's presented in the books.

Also, you gotta admit, it would finally answer the question of why is that Catch [+0]?

No, it'd still be at least +1. The Catch rules are weird.

And the way it's presented in the novels is actually totally unclear. We never see a test of whether the White Court heals superhumanly fast when wounded by a punch from someone wearing a wedding ring given by their Loving husband.

In fact, I recall nothing in the novels concerning WCVs and True Love that didn't look like a Compel to me.

So you pretty much have to go by what it says in YS, which is nothing really.

[cybertier]

I'll throw in another Catch question here:
A player, who's character is the Emissary of an Elemental Dragon of Earth, wants "Hardwood" as his catch.
His reasoning is that Wood opposes Earth in chinese Mythology and thus easily researchable with a magical library +1
And wood is easy to come by +2

I just can't picture regular fights in which the character is that often attacked with wooden weapons that his Catch might be worth the +3.
What are your opinions?

[Magicpockets]

I'd say it is worth +1 or +2 at most:
-Finding out the Catch requires interacting with the Emissary in person, and actually finding out that he is the emissary of an Earth dragon. Unless that part is really obvious and well known, the catch is worth +0. If his status as an Earth Dragon emissary is obvious, then the catch would be worth +1.
-Hardwood may be easy to come by, but actual wooden weapons that are worth a damn are not. The opposition would be limited to weapons with a value of 2 or less (batons, nightsticks and staves), and most ranged options are right out. Therefore, access to lethal wooden weaponry is rare, making the catch +1. Unless the definition of "hardwood" includes Ogres using Sildenafil citrate, in which case +2 is fair.

TL;DR: If the power the emissary is serving is really obvious, the catch is worth +2. Otherwise it's +1.

[cybertier]

Thanks, Magicpockets, perfect reasoning.

[Sanctaphrax]

That's clearly a +3 Catch.

The Power that an Emissary is serving is more or less always obvious, because Emissaries have Marked By Power.

If that Catch is +0 for knowledge because you have to meet the Emissary to know what to use against him, then essentially all Catches are. You have to meet a vampire to know it's a vampire.

It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is to get useful wooden weapons, since the Catch calculation does not include that.

I don't see any room for interpretation here.

PS: The Catch's cost assumes that people will occasionally bring wooden clubs and stuff specifically to exploit The Catch.

[Deadmanwalking]

I agree with Sanctaphrax. Wood is not hard to acquire, not even wooden weapons. Hell, I own a wooden weapon in the form of a walking stick you could use a staff. That's +2 availability right there, you need something like magic or True Faith or a particular power or rare material to be only +1. And he's right about the ability to notice who he works for as well, Marked By Power is not subtle.

[Magicpockets]

Does Marked by Power reveal who exactly you are marked by?

[Deadmanwalking]

Does Marked by Power reveal who exactly you are marked by?

Reading it, yes, actually, it does. That's part of why it gives the bonuses it does.