Fate points from the GM NPC perspective

[Escher]

I've been reading the book trying to figure out how fate points work for the GM as far as NPCs are concerned.

When there's a scene or character aspect that would benefit a PC, when is that invoked (PC spends a Fate point) versus compelled (NPC gains a Fate point)?  Or are those the same thing?  As a related issue, when does the PC's invocation give him the usual reroll or +2 bonus, and when should it cause the NPC to automatically fail a task or otherwise get a narrative compel?  Or is it more on the basis of whatever is appropriate at a moment?

An example might be Black Court versus a holy symbol.  But in this case, specifically, I'm trying to build a sort of monster that loathes the sound of clanging metal, and bells in particular.  A cast iron skillet and a ladle will do in an emergency, but a church bell will send 'em running.  So how would I handle that in play?  If a character just grabs a pan and starts banging, does that cost a point or something?  A block based on some skill with a +2 bonus for the aspect invocation?  (Assuming they learned in an earlier scene about this weakness, should they get to tag it the first time?  And then how do I handle it in subsequent scenes?)  Or do I just handle it as a compel, give the monsters a fate point and have them back off, forcing them to come after the players later?

[Haru]

You can do three things with an aspect: invoke for a +2 bonus, invoke for a reroll, invoke for effect.

I think what you are looking for in your case is the third kind. When a character is using his action to start banging on the pan, that creates the aspect "metallic noise" on the scene. Every aspect comes with a free tag, which he immediately uses to invoke for effect (a tag is simply an invoke wihtout the cost of a fate point). Now it is up to the GM to cover the effect. In this case, the "metallic sound" is anathema to the monster, so it makes sense to treat it as a compel on its high concept. Such a compel usually comes out of the GMs stash* of fate points, but since it would go to the monster, and therefore into the GM stash, that is moot. The GM could, however, offer a fate point to a player, if his character would also be affected. A wereform with sensitive ears, for example.

If the monster does not or can not flee, other players could use fate points on the aspect to reflect how the sound is weakening the monster, and grant them a +2 or a reroll on their attacks.

*Usually, the different NPCs don't have individual fate points, but one big pool. This pool is the GMs stash, which he can use to ramp up the power of his NPCs as he sees fit. This is done this way, since NPCs can easily drop below 0 refresh.
I don't know the exact number right know, I think it's something along the lines of the groups combined fate points, or the total spent refresh. But don't quote me on that.

[Escher]

The rule you're looking for is the sidebar on YS 352, which is an optional rule to pool your NPCs' fate points instead of having each one track separately.

But yes, that makes sense, have the player create the aspect and tag it for effect and then treat that as a compel.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yep, what Haru said basically (though each NPC does tehnically haveFP of their own...often 0 of them).

It's worth noting that Tags don't give the people you use them on FP, so tagging for effect (while in many ways compel-like) will never give the enemy FP. Handy thing to do, really, if you can arrange it.

[Orladdin]

It's worth noting that Tags don't give the people you use them on FP, so tagging for effect (while in many ways compel-like) will never give the enemy FP. Handy thing to do, really, if you can arrange it.

You're partially right and partially mistaken.  Though, for the second half, it's not entirely your fault as it isn't covered well in the book.

Free tags/invokes do not directly provide FPs, as in gaining a +2 bonus against someone on the round after you wounded them.  In this case you are correct.

But invokes/tags for effect initiate a compel from the GM.  Compels always grant FPs if accepted*. 
This is how a single scene aspect can be tagged for effect to compel an entire zone.  Where would all of those compel fate points come from?  The GM's endless pool, of course.

Fred's covered this distinction a few times.  Maybe someone more diligent than I has a relevant link?



*_{Ignoring debt compels and the like, but there's a different kind of repayment going on there.}

[Deadmanwalking]

That's interesting, I haven't seen that interpretation before. Link?

Fate Core certainly takes the stance that Compels always give a Fate Point...but then, it appears to remove the ability to tag for effect at all, so I'm not sure it says anything useful about doing so in the DFRPG.

[Orladdin]

That's interesting, I haven't seen that interpretation before. Link?

Fate Core certainly takes the stance that Compels always give a Fate Point...but then, it appears to remove the ability to tag for effect at all, so I'm not sure it says anything useful about doing so in the DFRPG.

Ah!  Here we go.  After looking over FateRPG.com and Fred's Blog, it turns out it was here all along.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24061.msg1022205.html#msg1022205

Fred, if you happen to check in on this thread: it might be a good idea to add something like this to the FateRpg site at least, and maybe to Core (though, it might already be in Core, I haven't gotten all the way through it with a fine-comb yet and might have missed it).

[Deadmanwalking]

Huh. You're right, that does appear to be how that works. Interesting.

[Orladdin]

Huh. You're right, that does appear to be how that works. Interesting.

Happy to help.

Once I figured that out, my FATE-GM'ing greatly improved.

[Deadmanwalking]

Happy to help.

It's appreciated. 

Once I figured that out, my FATE-GM'ing greatly improved.

In fairness, I basically knew all of that except for the 'they get a Fate Point' part...so I don't think it'll effect my GMing much. My NPCs rarely do that to PCs, and NPCs getting an additional FP here and there seems unlikely to shake things up too much...

[JDK002]

It's appreciated. 

In fairness, I basically knew all of that except for the 'they get a Fate Point' part...so I don't think it'll effect my GMing much. My NPCs rarely do that to PCs, and NPCs getting an additional FP here and there seems unlikely to shake things up too much...

That may depend on how the GM handles NPC fate points.  Compelling a warehouse full of mooks to flee due to a fire could result in their big bad ass boss (or a completly unrelated enemy) to have half a dozen extra fate points down the road.  That could potentially tip the scales when it's time to fight him.

[Deadmanwalking]

That may depend on how the GM handles NPC fate points.  Compelling a warehouse full of mooks to flee due to a fire could result in their big bad ass boss (or a completly unrelated enemy) to have half a dozen extra fate points down the road.  That could potentially tip the scales when it's time to fight him.

That strikes me as a deeply unfair way to do it. I don't let PCs pass around Fate Points all willy nilly (and I doubt many others do either), why should I do it for NPCs? Everybody has their own FP, dammit.

[Theonlyspiral]

I really don't see much trouble in it. I mean yeah the BBEG may have some extra Fate Points...but any group should have him outgunned in that department if you're offering plentiful compels. Also it makes running at the table way faster. Although that could be because I'm not 100% on FATE yet.

[JDK002]

That strikes me as a deeply unfair way to do it. I don't let PCs pass around Fate Points all willy nilly (and I doubt many others do either), why should I do it for NPCs? Everybody has their own FP, dammit.

Because I find that to be a tedious pain in the ass haha, and often results in useless FP for the GM.  My players rarely incite compels so it's not a huge deal and keeps the pace of the game steady.

How I work it is I add all the players refresh levels together and that's the generic FP pool the GM can use for anything.  It refreshes when the players FP refresh.  You get FP on npc compels.  This gives the GM roughly the same number of FP to work with as the players every session.  So if the players this handing the GM 6 FP is worth the compel I say let them haha.