The Leather Duster time travel theory

[logistics]

Heh...try this one for more proactive.  Future Harry goes back to Past Harry and tells him to hide his 44 caliber gun in Lara Raith's office when he and Luccio go to visit in Turn Coat.  Then, down the road, Future Harry visits Lara Raith to intimidate her and agrees to leave all his weapons etc. with security.  When they get to Laura's office, he pulls the hidden 44 out from where it was hidden and starts negotiating.

That would be interesting to pull off. Of course, that assumes Present Harry goes along with the idea or suggestion. I can see him arguing with himself and splitting hairs over morality over the deal and messing the whole thing up, particularly when he's young, like in Fool Moon. That's why I find the whole mascarading as his Unconscious so ingenious. It gets him to consider new ways of thinking, all the while assuming that he himself is just having a particularly vivid debate in his own head. He is, just not nearly in the way he's thinking...

[roteral]

Ha Inception. Future Harry is making it seem Present Harrys subconsious came up with the idea so Present Harry doesn't become suspcious except sometimes it doesn't take like with Tera West.
Sorry Logistics same post but just dumbed down a little

[roteral]

OK just so we are clear we should call positions in the Fae Courts "M"antles and positions of authority like The Merlin and Black staff "m"antles just to avoid the confusion we had before

[Ms Duck]

why call them mantles at all? they arent. they are titles.

man·tle
 [man-tl] Show IPA noun, verb, man·tled, man·tling.

noun
1.
a loose, sleeveless cloak or cape.

2.
something that covers, envelops, or conceals: the mantle of darkness.

3.
Geology . the portion of the earth, about 1800 miles (2900 km) thick, between the crust and the core. Compare core1 (  def 10 ) , crust (  def 6 ) .

4.
Zoology . a single or paired outgrowth of the body wall that lines the inner surface of the valves of the shell in mollusks and brachiopods.

5.
a chemically prepared, incombustible network hood for a gas jet, kerosene wick, etc., that, when the jet or wick is lighted, becomes incandescent and gives off a brilliant light.

Jim's being poetic, hes using defintion 2. there is no reason to use it for the title or office of merlin

[logistics]

why call them mantles at all? they arent. they are titles.

Jim's being poetic, hes using defintion 2. there is no reason to use it for the title or office of merlin

Now that I think about it...the whole idea of mantles of power. It's got me thinking of an old series by Piers Anthony. The Incarnations of Immortality. The whole setup is similar - science/magic world, and mortals assume various Offices of power depending on the beliefs mortals have, the more believe, the more Power is vested in the Office. Wonder if I'm on to anything. Didn't Jim make some joke during his last online discussion thing that at least he's not having all his heroes related to one another - I think Anthony did that with the last book in that series. Nox?

Ah, I'm probably nuts.

[phoenixjustice]

Now that I think about it...the whole idea of mantles of power. It's got me thinking of an old series by Piers Anthony. The Incarnations of Immortality. The whole setup is similar - science/magic world, and mortals assume various Offices of power depending on the beliefs mortals have, the more believe, the more Power is vested in the Office. Wonder if I'm on to anything. Didn't Jim make some joke during his last online discussion thing that at least he's not having all his heroes related to one another - I think Anthony did that with the last book in that series. Nox?

Ah, I'm probably nuts.

I've read that series! Also funny coincidence you bring it up because I was re reading info on it to refresh my memory of it. It gives an interesting interpretation of Satan.

[hank213]

Now that I think about it...the whole idea of mantles of power. It's got me thinking of an old series by Piers Anthony. The Incarnations of Immortality. The whole setup is similar - science/magic world, and mortals assume various Offices of power depending on the beliefs mortals have, the more believe, the more Power is vested in the Office. Wonder if I'm on to anything. Didn't Jim make some joke during his last online discussion thing that at least he's not having all his heroes related to one another - I think Anthony did that with the last book in that series. Nox?

Ah, I'm probably nuts.

Feist has done something similar with the pantheon of gods for his Magician series.

[Ms Duck]

Now that I think about it...the whole idea of mantles of power. It's got me thinking of an old series by Piers Anthony. The Incarnations of Immortality. The whole setup is similar - science/magic world, and mortals assume various Offices of power depending on the beliefs mortals have, the more believe, the more Power is vested in the Office. Wonder if I'm on to anything. Didn't Jim make some joke during his last online discussion thing that at least he's not having all his heroes related to one another - I think Anthony did that with the last book in that series. Nox?

Ah, I'm probably nuts.

well the famous one is by robert heinlien

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22%E2%80%94All_You_Zombies%E2%80%94%22

later expanded on in a half dozen other of his books

[logistics]

well the famous one is by robert heinlien

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22%E2%80%94All_You_Zombies%E2%80%94%22

later expanded on in a half dozen other of his books

Ah. I did guess Heinlein before thinking of Anthony, but I thought it might have something to do with Lazarus Long. Never read that particular short.

[logistics]

I've been giving some thought on how this would all be accomplished, and I was going through Chapter 20 again to see if I missed anything good, and it looks like I did. Here's the opening to Chapter 20, immediately preceding the description I quoted earlier:

I awoke in a dark place. It was like the inside of a warehouse, or a big, underground garage, all black, with a smooth, even floor, and a pool of bleak, sterile radiance in the middle of it that came from a source I could not see or identify. I felt like hell, and looked down to see myself covered in scratches, bruises, welts, blood, bandages, and ill-fitting clothing. I wore none of my implements or devices, and there was a curious distance between me and the pain of my injuries - I was more than aware of them, but they seemed to be something that was merely noted in passing, and unimportant to my life as a whole.

This seems like another reference to Ghost Story. The Present Harry is plopped down suddenly bereft of all his magic implements, just the clothes on his back, and injuries he suddenly really doesn't notice anymore - and there is quite a catalog of them listed. This sounds like the residual self-image Harry ran into while in Ghost form, as well as the detachment from the pain. I think Neurovore might be on to something regarding the Never Never and dreams - maybe a pocket dimension similar to Bob's skull or perhaps Agatha Hagglethorn's burnt Chicago that Future Harry draws his past self into as it dreams in the Never Never? There is some sort of glowing circle on the floor that Harry has to cross before the figure is able to make contact. That might be some kind of summoning circle.

[Griffyn612]

While I don't have any concrete idea of just what the figure is trying to do exactly, I get the general feeling that he is trying to mess with the past in a very circumspect way. He tweaks Harry's attitude towards certain ideas, and frankly gets him to behave differently then he otherwise would have. This sounds suspiciously similar to how Bob suggests handling time travel during their impromptu (and out of the blue) discussion on the subject in Proven Guilty...right before Little Chicago was mysteriously repaired.

I don't really support this idea, because I'm still a firm believer in the PG time-travel theories.  I do like the points you've made in your theory, and will be intrigued to see if it turns out to be correct.  I'm too invested in the PGtt theories to divide my attention/hopes, but I wish your theory well.

But I have to say, I'm surprised I didn't see anyone else mention this: Lash is a copy of an angel, and angels can/do exist outside linear time.
1) Lash slows down/stops linear time in WN at the end.
2) Uriel stops linear time in GS.

If Lash is the parasite, and makes her return in #15, then theoretically, then she may be able to help Dresden project a non-corporeal mental image of himself (just like she is) back in time.  The problem is that the first appearance of idHarry is in FM, before Lash is in Harry's head.  So I'm not sure that she'd be able to go back that far.  But she might be able to take Harry back to any point after the imprint is made.  Which could explain the interaction between Harry, idHarry, and Lash in DB.

[TheCuriousFan]

1) Lash slows down/stops linear time in WN at the end.

Wasn't that more fiddling with his perception of time rather than anything else?

[logistics]

Wasn't that more fiddling with his perception of time rather than anything else?

My own take was that she was artificially accelerating his thought processes to an absurd level. Sort of how 15 minutes felt forever when you were 6, magnified a bit. That would also help to explain the danger - his body just can't sustain that level of activity too long.

[Griffyn612]

Wasn't that more fiddling with his perception of time rather than anything else?

Yeah, I think she dosed his brain with tachyodorphins to make his brain work super-fast.  But she also says at the time (pun!) that time doesn't exist.

WN - pg403

     “Time does not exist,” she said, her tone firm. “Not the way you consider it, at any rate. I have temporarily accelerated the processes of your mind.”

And that was what she was doing to accelerate the process of his mind in the physical world.  As a non-corporeal entity, she might be able to show him the past just as easily as the present.  I think that's why she has eidetic memory: everything that existed in her past exists in her present, so recall isn't a problem. 

The problems would arise that she couldn't manipulate the past, as that's probably a no-no, and she probably couldn't send Harry back prior to her seeing/experiencing everything in his mind. 

The work-around for the second is that, as part of Harry and sharing his soul, she has his memories as well, and might be able to go back to that memory. 

The first isn't as easy.  But its assuming that such things are off limits to Angels and Fallen.  Maybe by sending Harry back, but not herself, it wouldn't be a violation.

Harry Lash-Back Theory (sub-category of logistics' Time-Travel Theory)
1)  Harry finds out in #15 that the parasite is Lash, who is sharing/living/feeding off of his soul.
2)  They resume 2-way communications.
3)  Harry has a need to go back and revisit his memories of previous casefiles.
4)  Lash reveals that Angels and Fallen are non-linear, meaning they can exist and revisit any time from their existence.
5)  Harry realizes that as an aggelocopy feeding-off-of/sharing his soul, Lash can exist and revisit any time from his existence as well.
6)  Lash tells him its against the rules for a shadow or Fallen to go back and change the past, and that she can't visit his past.
7)  Harry says that she wouldn't have to revist his past; only he would; and he promises not to change anything.
8)  Lash shows him how to not only recall his past, but to actually revisit it, in a non-linear mental state.
9)  Harry visits himself to piece together a few facts, and takes the opportunity to talk to himself, knowing that he can only have the same conversations over that he had previously.  Hence his deeper understanding of events, as well as his reluctant knowledge of not being allowed to change things.
10)  Harry then returns to the present.

Problems with this Theory:
1)  Making a lot of assumptions on Lash's abilities.
2)  We still have a paradox, as with all time-travel scenarios, because Harry has to recall a conversation he already had with his future self before his future self existed to have the conversation, meaning that the future self would have had to have existed in a timeline where a future-future self didn't make the trip back, which means that that first conversation would have changed the future.   :o

[GrandPanjandrum]

Eh...don't assume that only Angels can perceive time as non-linear.  The truth of the matter is that time IS non-linear.  It's a matter of wrapping your head around that.  There is no such thing as "now...or present."  Instead, there is past and future, that exist simultaneously.  Add to that fact (under the Theory of Relativity) that traveling at the speed of light suspends time and it seems clear that time is not an absolute....it's....well....relative.  Newton was wrong...Einstein was right.

When Lash sped up Harry's thinking process (to dangerous levels) in White Night...she was applying Einstein's Theory of Relativity.  The faster you go, the slower time passes.  This is only measurable (in human standards) at an approach to the "speed of light."  Therefore, Lash sped up Harry's thought process just short of the "speed of light" because time was still passing (tick........tick........tick).  Then, in Ghost Story, Uriel showed what a complete badass he was and moved Harry's speed of thought to exactly the "speed of light" because time no longer existed.  Everything became suspended in Molly's Star Trek mind.  He did so safely without any repercussions to Harry. 

One could surmise that could you speed up your thought process beyond the "speed of light,"  it would result in a return to the very recent past.  That's the hard way to do it.  An easier way would be memory of a particular instant in your life.   Harry's ability to call on his brain to recall a moment in consciousness of the past is what gives the perception of linear time.  But, it is only perception.  That moment he recalls can be as real as right....NOW.  Of course, by the time he could shout out...."NOW," it's already part of the "past."

"No matter where your go...there you are."

Addendum:  For those convinced there must be a Present...provide me with the smallest number you can think of, and I'll divide it in half.