Reforging a Mantle + My cup is full [CD Spoilers]

[Ms Duck]

the big problem for me is Jim is sometimes using definition three:

something that covers, envelops, or conceals: the mantle of darkness.

when Eb is talking about mantle, as in the warden of DR, hes talking about the title

when Odin talks about mantle, as in santa clause, hes talking about  mask or disguise he wears, an alternate self

and I dont think its possible to 'forge' mantles one and two together. they are seperate things. 

I would sugest then the Term Title for definition two, and epithets or masks for definition three( which would be the propper religous term)

Athena had 74 titles, but only 14 epithets; that is entirely different names she was worshipped under, with different attributes.

Harry wore the grey mantle of the warden

Harry bore the Title of warden of Demon Reach

Harry is the epithet of the Winter Knight

and for last case, Id just call em powers

Harry wields the power of soulfire

[Rasins]

the big problem for me is Jim is sometimes using definition three:

when Eb is talking about mantle, as in the warden of DR, hes talking about the title

when Odin talks about mantle, as in santa clause, hes talking about  mask or disguise he wears, an alternate self

and I dont think its possible to 'forge' mantles one and two together. they are seperate things. 

I would sugest then the Term Title for definition two, and epithets or masks for definition three( which would be the propper religous term)

Athena had 74 titles, but only 14 epithets; that is entirely different names she was worshipped under, with different attributes.

Harry wore the grey mantle of the warden

Harry bore the Title of warden of Demon Reach

Harry is the epithet of the Winter Knight

and for last case, Id just call em powers

Harry wields the power of soulfire

Duck - I would suggest the term "Mask" for the second one.  It's like a mask you use to disguise yourself (no one knew he was Odin while he wore it.)

An example of a title would be The Merlin, or the Za-Lord, Warden of the WC.

An example of a mantle would be Summer Lady, Winter Knight, WARDEN, (maybe GateKeeper, but I don't know if that comes with magical power or if it's just a title)

[Ms Duck]

Duck - I would suggest the term "Mask" for the second one.  It's like a mask you use to disguise yourself (no one knew he was Odin while he wore it.)

An example of a title would be The Merlin, or the Za-Lord, Warden of the WC.

An example of a mantle would be Summer Lady, Winter Knight, WARDEN, (maybe GateKeeper, but I don't know if that comes with magical power or if it's just a title)

yes, thats defintion three.

One: a garment,or cloak
Two: a formal title
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet

[KevinSig]

Well in my thinking, the Warden mantle might have a bit more going for it, than a normal position.  Genius loci are spirit beings, and from the Darkhallow we know that Mantles are forged of similar stuff.  Might explain why Mantles seem to have animus of their own.

Winter & Summer Mantles might be formed from genius loci, hence why they seem to reflect the seasons & nature.  The Erlking King might be formed of dead hunter spirits.

All I'm saying that while Demonreach isn't exactly the same thing as the mantles of immortals, I don't think we can say that they are totally incompatible either.

[Ms Duck]

Well in my thinking, the Warden mantle might have a bit more going for it, than a normal position.  Genius loci are spirit beings, and from the Darkhallow we know that Mantles are forged of similar stuff.  Might explain why Mantles seem to have animus of their own.

Winter & Summer Mantles might be formed from genius loci, hence why they seem to reflect the seasons & nature.  The Erlking King might be formed of dead hunter spirits.

All I'm saying that while Demonreach isn't exactly the same thing as the mantles of immortals, I don't think we can say that they are totally incompatible either.

hmm interesting point

[aShorty21]

yes, thats defintion three.

One: a garment,or cloak
Two: a formal title
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet

I was thinking more...

Zero: a garment,or cloak
One: a formal title
Two: a semi-aware power
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet

In that vernacular, You don't usually get 1 without 2. Or 0 without 1. sometimes you get 2 & 3 together.

Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are both 1 and 2. Za Lord is just 2. warden of the White Council is 0 and 1. Kris Kringle is 1, 2 & 3.

[Ms Duck]

I was thinking more...

Zero: a garment,or cloak
One: a formal title
Two: a semi-aware power
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet

In that vernacular, You don't usually get 1 without 2. Or 0 without 1. sometimes you get 2 & 3 together.

Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are both 1 and 2. Za Lord is just 2. warden of the White Council is 0 and 1. Kris Kringle is 1, 2 & 3.

enh im going by the order of the definitions in the dictionary

im not aware of 'mantle= power' beind used by anyone other then well, us. Does Jim even use 'mantle' for power in the books? Mehtinks we may be strecthing things here folks.

 

[aShorty21]

enh im going by the order of the definitions in the dictionary

I was just trying to stick with my original numbering system

im not aware of 'mantle= power' beind used by anyone other then well, us. Does Jim even use 'mantle' for power in the books? Mehtinks we may be strecthing things here folks.

 

I'm saying that 2 is a Butcher original. It is pretty much exactly what the Winter Knight power is.

Below is my inadequate long winded attempt to explain what I was trying to get at with definition 2.

Another way to look at it is this... Think about the types of powers that could be transferred on Halloween. I think we can all realize that just raw magical potential could be transferred (whole or in part) between individuals. If that raw magical potential was tied up with being Santa Claus, then if you get enough of the bits you are essentialy Santa Claus. You are what you eat. The same could not be said of being VP of accounting for Intel. VP of accounting isn't the type of power that can be transfered on Halloween, therefore it falls under Definition 1 and not Definition 2.

[Ms Duck]

I was just trying to stick with my original numbering system
I'm saying that 2 is a Butcher original. It is pretty much exactly what the Winter Knight power is.

Below is my inadequate long winded attempt to explain what I was trying to get at with definition 2.

I suspect WK is a mantle in the odin/ santa pov; it comes with more then a power, it has an identity, awareness and name of tis own.

that's why no matter who the winter lady, for example, is they become the winter lady. thats why they all look like twins, and given time call each other sister even tho they obivously are not.

WK is the same sort of thing

[aShorty21]

I suspect WK is a mantle in the odin/ santa pov; it comes with more then a power, it has an identity, awareness and name of tis own.

that's why no matter who the winter lady, for example, is they become the winter lady. thats why they all look like twins, and given time call each other sister even tho they obivously are not.

WK is the same sort of thing

Agreed. Which is my definition 2 Or at least what I ment it to be.

[Ms Duck]

Agreed. Which is my definition 2 Or at least what I ment it to be.

yes, buts its also your definition three, ya see

ok, where is Shecky?

YOOO HOOO GRAMMAR GOD WHERE ARE YOU ?!

[rekshek]

yes, buts its also your definition three, ya see

ok, where is Shecky?

YOOO HOOO GRAMMAR GOD WHERE ARE YOU ?!

If I'm getting this correctly, WK would be two but no three, but the demonreach would be three and not two. That is the WK tries to change him, while demonreach offers something but so far hasn't tried to change him (besides giving him a job).

[Rasins]

I was thinking more...

Zero: a garment,or cloak
One: a formal title
Two: a semi-aware power
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet

In that vernacular, You don't usually get 1 without 2. Or 0 without 1. sometimes you get 2 & 3 together.

Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are both 1 and 2. Za Lord is just 2. warden of the White Council is 0 and 1. Kris Kringle is 1, 2 & 3.

Yeah, see, using your definitions, I think it's more like ....

Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are all One and Two.
Za Lord is only One
Warden of the WC is zero and One
WARDEN is only two
Kringle is definitly three and maybe two

Also, given that the mantles of the courts seem to try to change the wearer, they may be three as well but making the "mask" permanent.

I don't believe any mystical power (other than the same that any VP of Accounting has) is bestowed on the "wearer" of the Za Lord or Warden of the WC.  I don't recall any power up Harry got with the grey cloak.  Well other than authority, and while that is a power, it's not the kind of power that say the WK mantle gives.  That's ACTUAL power.

[aShorty21]

Yeah, see, using your definitions, I think it's more like ....

Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are all One and Two.
Za Lord is only One
Warden of the WC is zero and One
WARDEN is only two
Kringle is definitly three and maybe two

Also, given that the mantles of the courts seem to try to change the wearer, they may be three as well but making the "mask" permanent.

I don't believe any mystical power (other than the same that any VP of Accounting has) is bestowed on the "wearer" of the Za Lord or Warden of the WC.  I don't recall any power up Harry got with the grey cloak.  Well other than authority, and while that is a power, it's not the kind of power that say the WK mantle gives.  That's ACTUAL power.

Yep, what I am getting at.

[lilylis]

Bob's personality isnt truly his, its  reflection of his owner.  Compare that to the archive ; who has a different but much larger database.

Bob a reflection of Harry's personality? I know that's mentioned multiple times but it just doesn't seem true to me.  Where Bob is all sex fiend...interested in "boobs" and porn. Harry seems much too gentlemanly for that.