TCF posted the quote below in his own topic with respect to
Xrpt#1 (quoted at the bottom of this topic), and it caused me to do some serious thinking that included enough research and quotes that I am posting my thoughts in this separate topic.
How do you expect these two forces to interact in the long term?
Personally I'm expecting the Soulfire to change the Winter Knight mantle.
Hmmmm.
It is almost as if Harry is forging his soul into the essence of the mantle, and the long term effect might be truly interesting... TCF's quoting of
Xrpt#1 in this context really emphasizes the relevance of this.
The interaction between Harry and Mother Summer
xrpt#3 probably applies directly to the idea that Harry's use of soulfire might change the Winter Knight Mantle. In their conversation Mother Summer is talking about how rather than the mantle changing him, he could change it. Couple that with the earlier conversation
xrpt#2 about Harry's choice to be informed about what was really going on possibly changing him, which I think was causing Mother Summer to remember the ways she had changed to become who she is now. This implies that Harry might have some growing to do. Heck the Gatekeeper is one of the few we are sure knows about this stuff, and he has been around a
very long time.
Then remember how Harry's experiences with Lash brought Uriel's attention upon him
xrpt#5, and how that caused Uriel to go a long ways out of his way to help Harry understand that he had a chance to retain himself against the mantle.
Ghost Story This is important because not only does it show that Harry has experience retaining his self in the face of enormous pressure to give in to power to subsume his will ala Lasciel's coin, but it also shows that in fighting off that pressure, he changed Lasciel
Xrpt#4. And if you have read
my favorite Lash theories, you know that I feel that it was his own soul that was used in soulfire to change Lash. (Heck, Jim has said, "You might note that Lash essentially committed suicide with her “free will.” A choice which rather strongly resembles another choice a few books later in the series." which is kinda similar to saying that Lash was reshaped into Harry's image)
Also, I thought Harry's "No one can chain the Hulk!" comment when he used the soulfire in
Xrpt#1 to break Mother Winter's will shackles was a funny pop culture reference, but after rereading
Xrpt#4 it also seems like an interesting coincidence considering it's the only other time I remember The Hulk being mentioned in the series (although there might be others).
A new thought though: Harry is wearing more than one mantle now. And here's the exciting part... Harry deliberately forged his soul into the spell that bound him to Demonreach making him the Warden.
So having pointed all those references in the books, what can we postulate about the future?Not only will Harry succeed in retaining who he is rather than the Winter Mantle taking that away from him, but his use of Soulfire while the Winter Knight will Reforge the mantle into the shape of his soul. And since that soul is also forged into his role as The Warden, these two mantles (WAG) will become inextricable from each other.
The consequences of this could mean that either all the future Winter Knights will also be The Warden, or that Harry will become particularly long lived (maybe even nigh immortal) as part of this reforged job title.
Finally a WoJ:
sapph42: When Dresden killed Aurora, her power flowed to the nearest vessel of Summer, which happened to be the presumably mortal Lily (the Summer Knight). If Dresden killed Maeve, would he become a Winter Lord, or are there rules in place mandating gender?
Jim: 3) There are rules in places of course. (On the other hand, Harry's the kind of guy that says, "That's what my captain keeps telling me.") But the real rule in play here would be a much simpler one: you can't fill a cup that is already full. You need an empty one. Or a really big one that isn't topped off.
The implication here is that if Harry were a cup, or vessel for Jobs/Mantles, then he is full to capacity, and can't take no more. We know that Lily got the Summer Lady mantle when she was the Summer Knight, so that alone isn't enough to mandate that Harry's cup is too full, so what Mantles does Harry wear/Job descriptions does he hold?
- White Council Member (card carrying, the paperwork for his re-admittance has been filed)
- Vanilla Warden Regional Commander
- Sword of The Cross Custodian x2 (currently proxied out to Murph, his Robin)
- Host to some unidentified "parasite"
- Mortal Soulfire Wielder
- Starborn (Whatever that means)
- The Warden of Demonreach
- Winter Knight
In summary, these last 4 titles are likely to be reforged into something that might be described as transcendent. Maybe even "as close to a saint" as Harry can get.
(
the spoiler tag below is to condense the quotes since they get lengthy, not for actual spoilerage hiding)
Excerpt #1
Harry says soulfire + Winter Knight Mantle combined might have odd effects: And then I crossed my fingers and reached into me, into the place where a covert archangel had granted me access to one of the primal forces of the universe, an energy called soulfire. I had no idea how it might interact with the Winter Knight’s mantle on an ongoing basis. I mean, it had worked out once before, but that didn't mean that it would keep working out. I felt certain that I was pretty much swallowing bottles of nitroglycerin, then jumping up and down to see what would happen, but at this point I had little to lose. I gathered up soulfire, used it to infuse my raw will, and cast the resulting compound against my bonds.
Excerpt #2
Conversation between Mother Summer and Harry "If you choose to walk with me, what is seen cannot be unseen, and what is known cannot be unknown. It may harm you."
"Harm me how?" I asked.
"You may never know a night's peace again. Knowledge is power, young man. Power to do good and power to do harm. Some knowledge can hurt some can kill."
"What happens if I don't have it.?"
Mother Summer smiled, a gentle sadness in her eyes. "you keep the bliss of ignorance - and consign our fates to fickle chance. Do not choose lightly."
... (he chooses to know)
"Even if it may haunt you? Harm you? Isolate you?"
I thought about it some more and then said, "Especially then. Show me."
An emotion flickered across Mother Summer's face - gentle pain and regret.
"So be it," she said quietly. Come with me."
Excerpt #3
Conversation between Mother Summer and Harry (later)"Winter is cold, Sir Knight, but never so cold that it freezes the heart altogether."
"You've got to have a heart before it can freeze, ma'am."
"You do."
I walked for a little while, considering that. "you're saying that I have a chance to stay me."
"I'm saying many things," Mother Summer said. "Do you have a chance to remain yourself despite the tendency of the mantle to mold your thoughts and desires? All Knights, Winter and Summer, have that chance. Most fail."
"But it's possible," I said.
She looked up at me and her eyes were deeper than time. "Anything is possible."
"Ah," I said, understanding. "We're not really talking about me."
"We are," she said serenely, turning her eyes away. "And we are not."
Excerpt #4
Relevant quote about Harry changing Lasciel"I do not change."
"Speaking of," I said. "A friend pointed out to me that I may have developed some anger issues over the past couple of years. Maybe influenced by... oh, who knows what."
The fallen angel's shadow turned her head. I could only tell because her lovely profile was slightly less black than the shadow around it.
"I thought maybe you would know what," I said. "Tell me."
"I told you once before, my host," the shadow said. "You are easier to talk to when you are asleep."
Which is just chilling, [rambling about the nature of someone's subconcious urgest]
Mine wore a lot of black, even before Lasciel showed up.
Like I said. Chilling.
The fallen angel turned to depart on that note, probably because it could have made a nicely scary exit line.
I extended my hand, and with it my mind, and barred her departure with an effort of simple will. Lasciel existed only in my thoughts, after all. "My head," I told her "My rules. We aren't finished."
She turned to face me, and her eyes suddenly glowed with orange and amber and scarlet flickers of Hellfire. It was the only non-black thing about her.
"See, here's the thing," I said. My inner evil twin might have a lot of impulses I'd rather not indulge - but he isn't a stranger. He's me."
[bunch of stuff about Harry's Id's anger and the nature of anger including constructive anger being called passion. Things make Harry angry and he decided to spend his life doing something about it.]
"Because you're so noble," she purred...
"Because I'd rather use that anger to smash the things that hurt people than let it use me," I said. "Talk at my subconscious all you want. But I'd be careful about trying to feed my inner Hulk, if I were you. You might end up making me that much better a person, once I beat it down. Who knows, you might make me into a saint. Or as close to one as I could get, anyway."
The demon just stared at me.
"See, here's the thing," I said. "I know me. And I just cant imagine you talking and talking to my evil twin like that, without him ever saying anything back I don't think you're the only one doing any influencing here. I don't think you're the same creature now that you were when you came."
[Lash haughtily goes on about how eternal and immutable she is.] "You. Cannot. Change. Me."
I nodded agreeably. "You're right. I can't change Lasciel. But I couldn't prevent Lasciel from walking out of the room, either." I eyed her hard and lowered my voice. "Lady, you ain't Lasciel."
I couldn't be sure, but I thought I could see the darkened form's shoulders flinch.
"You're an image of her," I continued. "A copy. A footprint. But you've got to be at least as mutable as the material the impression was made upon. As mutable as me, and hey, I've got newfound anger issues. What have you got that's new?"
"You are delusional," she said. Her voice was very quiet.
"I disagree. After all, if you have managed to change me - even if it doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to turn into Ted Bundy - then it seems to me that you'd be at least as vulnerable. In fact, the way that sort of thing works... you pretty much have to have changed yourself to do what you've done to me."
Excerpt #5
Harry's overcoming Lasciel's shadow got Uriel's attention: "That your experience with resisting the shadow of the Fallen One has garnered the respect of the Watchman, my Emissary."
