Native American and other Exotic Magics

[Magizoologist]

Does anyone here have any education in tribal cultures and their magic systems? My gaming group is looking for information on how to stat out exotic magic systems for the Dresden Files RPG.

-Any North or South American Tribes, but we're looking specifically for Plains Indian tribes.
-Native Australian
-Native African

My GM wanted to just have players wield totems like elements but that just doesn't sound very accurate to me. I know this is an extremely broad question. Any help would be lovely though.

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, firstly, the details are gonna depend a shitload on the tribe.

That said, at it's heart, magic's gonna work exactly the same. If you're a Wizard, you'll have Evocation and Thaumaturgy. Evocation will have elements and Thaumaturgy will have either functional or thematic specialties. Some tribes will have different elements (though not totems, that's definitely the wrong way to go there), and most will have different/favored Thematic Thaumaturgy specialties.

But most tribal magic users probably aren't Wizards per se. Some varying combination of Psychic, Shapeshifting, Sponsored Magic and True Faith powers, and maybe Thaumaturgy or Evocation (with Thaumaturgy more common) is much more likely for a shaman or spirit-talker than the whole Wizard thing. All depending on their particular tribe's beliefs and practices. In particular, Sponsored Magic from a particular totem, place, or set of spirits is very likely indeed for such people, and a good way to distinguish even a full Wizard who grew up in such a culture.

[nick012000]

Yeah, pretty much. I'll also add in that taking traits from the Were-critter template might also be appropriate, for things like the Aztec Jaguar Warriors and people like Listen-to-Wind.

[Haru]

Well, totems can just be treated as focus items, for most intents and purposes, I think. A character aspect, if the shaman in question is bound to any particular totem animal would also be appropriate. You could borrow the "echoes of the beast" power, to represent a totem animal even further, giving the shaman some skills of the animal in question.

You could take any of the powers in the book and treat them as highly specialized spells. Beast change and such have already been mentioned, of course. Gaseous form, for example, could be the shaman's way of a spirit journey, and he is so good at it, that he merely needs an effort of will to leave his body.

Depending on how much in line with history you want to stay, you might only have thaumaturgy available for your spellcasting tribesmen. On the other hand, that frees up tons of refresh for refinement to really make those rituals count. You could also come up with a couple of stunts for cooperative rituals, where 2 or more people cast a spell.

Another idea would be to combine spellcasters and true believers, since shamans are kind of both. that means you can adjust the true believer powers for your purposes. Even if it is not the white god that is helping them, animal spirits or manitu or whatever should work just as well, as long as they believe in it.

Sponsored magic might also be something to look into, especially in conjunction with true believer and totem animal. The magic is already colored by the sponsor, which would be the totem animal/animal spirit in this case, and the rest only furthers this connection.

Granted, this is all from Native American tropes, I don't know much about them outside of that. I would recommend you search the internet or browse your local library, if you are concerned about more accurate details about them. Once you have those details, you might find it easier to flesh them out mechanically. If you still have problems after that, you know where to find us

[Vairelome]

Also, if you decide to go with a non-classical array of elements for Evocation/Channeling, I highly recommend keeping a five-element system that covers all of Evocation's possibilities within those five elements.  If you really, really want to, you could go to four or six elements, but beyond that is not recommended.  (Having fewer elements makes Evocation more powerful; having more elements makes it less powerful.)

For Thaumaturgy/Ritual, the functional elements should be good enough as is, though you might want to come up with new thematic elements as appropriate.  Thematic elements should be somewhat narrow in focus; you don't want one theme to be an endless bag of tricks.  (Ritual: Shamanism is too broad a theme.  If you want to be a full-bore shaman, you need Thaumaturgy.  Ritual: Divination would work, though.)  Ritual ought to be useful, but upgrading to full Thaumaturgy should always be considered worth the refresh if appropriate to the character, in my opinion.

[Magizoologist]

Thanks, guys. This was really helpful. I'll report back to DM. If anyone still wants to add their 2 cents though, feel free.

[Wyntonian]

Does anyone know of any reasonable elemental systems for evocation aside from the classical Greek/European and the Chinese/Japanese ones?

[Deadmanwalking]

Does anyone know of any reasonable elemental systems for evocation aside from the classical Greek/European and the Chinese/Japanese ones?

Having done a bit of basic research:

They're actually explicitly Chinese (if you mean Metal, Wood, Earth, Fire, and Water). The Japanese (like the Hindus or ancient Egyptians) use the more familiar Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, but add on Void (easily translated to Spirit, IMO). That system seems to be pretty universal in Europe and the Middle East, and not uncommon in Asia (where it's either that or the Chinese one). Native Americans don't appear to have had an elemental system in quite the same sense, or if they did it's lost/merged with the Western set now (which is used by many modern shamans), and I'm just not finding anything at all about traditional African or Australian systems.

[Lavecki121]

You could always go Captain Planet too and sub spirit for Heart. Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, Heart. Heart seemed to refer to animals so it could work for native american side i would assume.

[Haru]

Something I've found is the "Medicine Wheel". I have no idea how correct it is, or if it is a western interpretation or even invention that's been credited to native americans, but it looks like a good thing to go on.

Basically, it divides a circle into 4 parts: north, east, south and west. There are a number of attributes (like plants or animals) that are attached to each of the directions on the medicine wheel, and they translate pretty well into the western elemental theory (see above). I've composed a short list of what I've found, but if you go that way, there is probably a lot more out there.

North:

• Elders
• Bear
• Cedar
• Winter
• Wind

East:

• Children
• Eagle
• Tobacco
• Spring
• Fire

South:

• Youth
• Wolf
• Sweetgrass
• Summer
• Earth

West:

• Parents
• Buffalo
• Sage
• Fall
• Water

A fifth element could be personalized to the wizard/shaman. A spirit guide animal, a totem, the heart (as someone mentioned), manitu or a similar higher power for those who mix religion with magic (which probably a lot do), and so forth.

[Llayne]

If it's your game make Shaman full wizards if that's what you want. That's what I see them as, and most of the 'stories' or 'evidence' we have now of their traditions was when their customs and powers were already in decline. With the belief their their power comes from the land, the more that gets cultivated or paved over the more power they lost.

If you can get your hands on a copy of Dark Age: Mage they have a Spirit Talker break down for four 'totems' that might be along the lines of what you're looking for. Warrior, Trickster, Chieftain, Wise One. Haru's was a nice breakdown too.

Here's links to a couple of old characters I had. The first one was a 'Spirit Warrior'... sort of like a DF lycanthrope only he can control the process and change the spirit he calls upon.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22322.msg1204595.html#msg1204595

And Here's a spellcaster. I think Shamanism is a valid 'Theme' for Ritual... I did a reflavoring of Diabolism.

http://phoenixdfrpg.wikidot.com/joseph-west

[Taran]

Something I've found is the "Medicine Wheel". I have no idea how correct it is, or if it is a western interpretation or even invention that's been credited to native americans, but it looks like a good thing to go on.

Basically, it divides a circle into 4 parts: north, east, south and west. There are a number of attributes (like plants or animals) that are attached to each of the directions on the medicine wheel, and they translate pretty well into the western elemental theory (see above). I've composed a short list of what I've found, but if you go that way, there is probably a lot more out there.

North:

• Elders
• Bear
• Cedar
• Winter
• Wind

East:

• Children
• Eagle
• Tobacco
• Spring
• Fire

South:

• Youth
• Wolf
• Sweetgrass
• Summer
• Earth

West:

• Parents
• Buffalo
• Sage
• Fall
• Water

I've seen this with the Metis where I'm from.  I actually have a contact who is Metis...I can have a chat with them if you want...

If I'm remembering correctly, each of the plants in each category have meaning and are used in different rituals.  All four categories together represent the cycle of life from birth to death.

It looks a lot like it would make up 4 Fairy courts.  If you interperet the magic as one based on the land and the spirits tied to it, and if those spirits are the fae that are tied to those locals, it makes sense that their magic would be some form of sponsored magic.  The sponsor(s) could be specific fairies or entire courts...or, perhaps, it's the belief in the balance of all four courts itself.

If you look at some of the typical stories like the raven as the trickster, they behave a lot like fairies...

[Haru]

I would not involve the faeries into native american magic. Or at least not human faeries. But there are a bunch of creatures around, that are half magic half mortal creatures, like the shide are with humans. Those could actually be the various spirit animals.

As for the wheel, I have actually seen multiple versions of it, each of them slightly different than the next. Also there are some more complicated than the one with four, they go up to 12 and have an animal/interpretation for each moon. Though there are still the 4 main directions in each of them.

If you could get some more information, that would be awesome. Mine is pretty much just a few minutes of googling. If nothing else, the resources section would get an update on native american spellcasting.

[nick012000]

You could take any of the powers in the book and treat them as highly specialized spells. Beast change and such have already been mentioned, of course. Gaseous form, for example, could be the shaman's way of a spirit journey, and he is so good at it, that he merely needs an effort of will to leave his body.

Judging by Ghost Story, I'd say Human Form [+1] and Spirit Form [-3] would probably be more appropriate for that.

[Taran]

I would not involve the faeries into native american magic. Or at least not human faeries. But there are a bunch of creatures around, that are half magic half mortal creatures, like the shide are with humans. Those could actually be the various spirit animals.

Sorry, I meant Sidhe, not "fairies".

I just meant Nature-based Nevernever creatures.