Theme for Channeling?

[Taran]

I'm playing a shapeshifter Storm dragon.  I took channeling as the breath weapon.  Looking at the elements, Air seems to fit best because it does things like create fog and blasts of air etc...

Could I take Channeling Storm?  Then I could also do things like create rain, shoot lightning/sonic booms ?  Or is that more the purview of sponsored magic?

[Haru]

I would keep channeling more narrow than storm. If you do it right, you get channeling air, water and lightning all in one package, and that is pretty much exactly what you would get with the evocation package.

On the other hand, if your spells need to behave like a storm, I would be more inclined to allow it. So you couldn't just shoot lightning, you'd need to shoot the lightning from a cloud in the sky. The same goes for the sonic boom, can't be done without a lightning. You'd have trouble affecting people who are indoors (shelter from the storm).

So yeah, evocation or highly compellable storm channeling would be what I would go with. A third option would be to take channeling air or lightning, and upgrade it later to evocation to get the rest. You can, of course, also upgrade the compellable channeling to evocation later, to get rid of its restrictions.

[Taran]

Well, in the description of Air, it mentions making fog/mist, which would be a major thing I'd want to do.

Strong winds etc... are obviously air...but I could also see lightning as being air as well:  Super-charged air particles.  If I could do lightning, then I could do the sonic booms.  The only thing I wouldn't be able to do is create water/rain, which would be too bad, but you're right, I could upgrade to evocation eventually.

As far as the lightning goes, I see the argument that it fits under fire...but I can see it both ways.

Spells originate from his breath weapon...so I don't know how he'd be able to affect existing clouds.  Making actual storms seems more the realm of ritual or thaumaturgy.

[Haru]

I know that air kind of covers lightning, but I'm also a bit reluctant to grant that to a focused practitioner. For full evocation, I don't really have a problem with it, you have a well rounded knowledge of what you are doing, so you should be able to tweak things around a bit. Focused practitioners on the other hand are that: focused. I would allow for channeling(air) or channeling(lightning), but not both rolled into one (the same with fire or earth). Fog I could see for air, though.

[blackstaff67]

For the Record, my sorcerer Wolfgang Duba has Spirit, Water and Earth and uses Lightning as a primary rote spell, but then he has Evocation and not Channelling.

[Llayne]

Lightning is one of those that get's tossed around a bit. Is it in Air? Earth? Fire? Depends on the character's belief system, but if it can be included in one of the evocation elements then it should work for a single channeling element.

As far as "Storm" Channeling I'd just talk to Addicted... it seems viable to me but these things vary from GM to GM. You  may also want to pick up Ritual or convert to Sponsored Magic so you can affect larger weather patterns down the road.

[nick012000]

Focused practitioners on the other hand are that: focused.

I dunno about that. They're limited to one element, sure, but that one element can do a lot of disparate things, at least if you aren't just choosing Fire. Fire's really good at burning people, but all the other elements can do two or three seperate things. Spirit does mental/spiritual manipulation, ectoplasm, and telekinesis; Air does wind manipulation, motion manipulation, and lightning. Earth does gravity manipulation, magnetism (and thus lightning), rock/metal manipulation, et cetera. Water does entropy and water manipulation.

Besides, the only benefit they can get from Refinement is additional Item Slots, and that's restriction enough.

So, yeah. Air Channelling would totally fit with a dude whose power is manipulating storms. He'd probably want Ritual for really large-scale changes, though.

[Haru]

I dunno about that. They're limited to one element, sure, but that one element can do a lot of disparate things, at least if you aren't just choosing Fire.

You can justify a whole lot with just one element, if you do it right. And I don't have a problem with that, it's a cool thing to do, but it's not how I think about the focused practitioner. For me, a focused practitioner is very good at the one thing he can do, but he can't really think out of the box as much as a full evocator could, because of his narrow field of expertise.

Fire is heat, heat is random movement in a gas. Spirit can do telekinesis, telekinesis is moving things with your mind. Conclusion: I can create fire with spirit.
Air is the element of motion and movement as well. I could move something so fast, that it catches on fire from the friction. If I do this on a miniature level, it will be indistinguishable from fire magic.
Those applications are well and good, but in my opinion, if you want to play someone who can do air and fire magic, just take evocation and have those examples above as your narration.

I would be more at ease with giving a focused practitioner (air) the wings power than letting him throw lightning. I see there being far more channeling options than there are elements for evocation, because some of the applications of an element are only fully developed as your knowledge about the workings grows. But that might just be me, I know my views on some of those things can be a bit weird.

[nick012000]

Fire is heat, heat is random movement in a gas. Spirit can do telekinesis, telekinesis is moving things with your mind. Conclusion: I can create fire with spirit.
Air is the element of motion and movement as well. I could move something so fast, that it catches on fire from the friction. If I do this on a miniature level, it will be indistinguishable from fire magic.

In theory, sure, but in practice, they'd produce such tiny amounts of heat for the amount of power you're putting into it that it's just not funny. If you've ever watched Survivor, you might have noticed how much difficulty they've usually got trying to start a fire by means of friction. You'd probably need a full-scale Thaumaturgy ritual to produces useful quantities of heat. By contrast, a Fire evocation just lets you produce useful quantities of it with a wave of your hand.

[UmbraLux]

Could I take Channeling Storm?

My question (which may or may not be the same as your GM) when someone wants a non-standard 'element' is simple:  What elemental system does it fit and what does that do to the magical tradition?

DF already talks about different traditions and implies Asian wizards don't follow the same one as European.  So I don't see an issue with an additional tradition, I'd just want to see it as a whole.  Even if the character only takes a part of it.

[Haru]

In theory, sure, but in practice, they'd produce such tiny amounts of heat for the amount of power you're putting into it that it's just not funny. If you've ever watched Survivor, you might have noticed how much difficulty they've usually got trying to start a fire by means of friction. You'd probably need a full-scale Thaumaturgy ritual to produces useful quantities of heat. By contrast, a Fire evocation just lets you produce useful quantities of it with a wave of your hand.

That's kind of my point, but you can either forbid it entirely (like I explained in my position above), or you'll have to let people do it. There is no difference between an air and a fire maneuver for an "on fire" aspect, if you allow the use of air for a friction based heat spell.

[Mrmdubois]

It's always possible to ramp up the difficulty of the control roll, or better yet compel it for now being so dissimilar to the normal way an air channeler's magic works, or even jut charge two fate points for temporary fire channeling.

[Deadmanwalking]

Technically, no, no thematic Channeling.

That said, Storm is a perfectly reasonable element. It's no broader than air or water (it has parts of both, but definitively lack Water's entropy-magic, for example)...so that'd be fine.

Other cool elements include Shadow, Light, Electricity, and Magma. All are potentially cool, and not any broader than existing elements.

[UmbraLux]

That's kind of my point, but you can either forbid it entirely (like I explained in my position above), or you'll have to let people do it.

I don't think it has to be that black and white.  Just remember the elements themselves are aspects...and use them as such.

Someone using air to create fire could be responded to in many ways:  compels might include failure, longer time, side effects like wind, or even less control; invokes may include anything from a bonus to defense to taking advantage of the associated winds or heat for something else.  Depending on how it's used, the caster may or may not get a fate point out of it. 

[Taran]

@Llayne.  I was going to ask Addicted about it, but I thought I'd run it past the community to see what people thought.  I figure there'd be no point bugging him about it if "no" was the common Concensus.

@Umbralux:  As far as magical tradition, my dragon character is a japanese dragon.  They tend to be associated with Luck, Bodies of water and Storms/weather.

I was originally thinking of channeling water, but then figured air gave me more of a "storm" theme.

I guess the magical tradition from that culture would be Fire, Water, Metal, Wood, Air?  So I'm not sure how "storm" would fit as an element, I guess.

@deadmanwalking:  I guess if Storm were allowed I'd have to hammer out what it could do.