Author Topic: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)  (Read 23777 times)

Offline GrandPanjandrum

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The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:44:02 AM »
Sit back, strap in and put on a little mood music.  I suggest Trojans by Atlas Genius, because…well, the words tell the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd2yr12abg8

“Your trojan's in my head”
_______________________________________

Theory:  The Parasite is Arianna

1.    Failed Death Curse:  
In Changes, just before Harry serves up a whole heaping helping of “see ya,” Arianna issues her death curse by mumbling a word (a focus word) that Harry doesn’t recognize.  It was intended to exchange her body for Harry’s (just like Corpsetaker).  So, when she died, she would possess Harry’s body, and Harry would no longer exist.  But, it didn’t work.  Instead, Harry remained in his body.  He, also, gained another resident; Arianna.   The death curse failed due to one of three reasons. 

--Arianna was too weak and unfocussed to pull it off
--Harry was too stubborn, and resisted
--Lash is still in there somewhere, and resisted for Harry
It was probably a combination of all three.

Quote
She stared up at me with uncomprehending eyes, black blood staining her mouth. "Cattle.  You are c-cattle."
"Moo," I said. And I lifted my right hand.
Her eyes widened further.  She gasped a word I didn't know.


2.   Harry Blacks Out :
Also, in Changes, Harry blacked out for two minutes or so just as the blood curse is initiated.  This makes sense, because at that moment he had an Aristocratic Red Court vampire lounging in his body.  The curse attacked him because it was aimed at the entire Red Court.  Something kicked in to protect him.  It might have been something as simple as his entire body shutting down.  But, I’m betting that Lash gave him another mental block just like she did in White Night.  This, ultimately, protected Harry, Arianna and Lash from the curse, but he was down for two minutes while the curse operated.

3.   Introduction to the Parasite:

Our first knowledge of the parasite is at the end of Ghost Story.  Demonreach states that the parasite maintained the blood flow.  Well, if you require a hematologist, a Red Court vampire should be your first choice.  They know blood better than anyone.  It doesn't make sense that Mab and Demonreach should have to negotiate with Lash.  She has shown that she will labor to save Harry's life out of free will, and that was a big deal to her.  I don't think she would hold Harry's life hostage.  Arianna certainly would.

4.   Headaches:

Harry has been suffering from headaches.  In Cold Days,  Harry develops a massive headache as he is learning about the prison well on the island.  Demonreach “WARNS” it away, but not before we learn what the headache felt like.  Harry describes it as two separate ice picks digging into his skull.  He points out that this is what it always feels like.  I would better describe it as two Red Court vampire fangs digging into his skull.

5.   It Bursts Forth From Your Skull

This is a small issue, but it is reflective of a Red Court vampire.  They wear a human skin, and when agitated, they shed it like…well a skin.  Somehow, Arianna will eventually become whole within Harry.  We know they can contract their huge size to a smaller area as has been shown various times in the series.


There you have it, guys and gals.  The Parasite is Arianna.  It is a result of a botched Death Curse (as she was a sorceress).  I believe Lash is still in there, and may have preserved Harry's life twice in Changes.  Two's company...three's a crowd.

Your trojan's in my head
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 02:44:08 AM by GrandPanjandrum »
Disclaimer:  Ate lead paint chips on a regular basis as a child.  Posts reflect degenerative loss of mental acuity.

Offline raidem

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 12:47:48 AM »
Didn't the headaches predate Changes though?
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline GrandPanjandrum

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 12:51:12 AM »
Didn't the headaches predate Changes though?

There's headaches...and there's headaches.  One of those times was Mab messing with his head and stealing his blasting rod.  But this is a defined "two ice picks."  It's the first time he described it that way.
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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 01:06:02 AM »
i thought death curses were a human thing?

and this hasn't really been brought up that i've seen but, DR says burst from skull yes? well i think harry just assumed it would physically burst from his skull, due to preconceived notions about the word 'burst' in corrallation to his experiences eg, facehugger from aliens. the thing is DR isn't an elequent speaker. indeed he barely spoke more then a few sentences before CD. i think this is a miscommunication. it WILL metaphysically burst from his skull, not physically. as a spiritual being. if my other theories are correct 'lash' will then be housed in bobs new vessel, becoming harry's new info source.

Offline Cenphx

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 01:13:09 AM »
Just an the 'ice pick' headache issue-there are two. Not just the one in CD but theres another in SmF specifically described exactly the same as the one you are taking as evidence as a RCV. The SmF headache was caused by Mab's geas. But I hadnt really thought about Arianna's death curse and that is probably something definitely worth considering.

Offline Orbweaver

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 01:22:09 AM »
i thought death curses were a human thing?

How human is human, again? :) We know the Denarians can throw one, and they're definitely not attached to or using the most human of abilities. Even wizards are considered to be slightly different from vanilla mortals, thanks to that nifty little gene that lets them use greater magical talents.

I don't think it's entirely species related, as it pretty much just requires a character to be able to tap into their life force and burn it out.

Quote
and this hasn't really been brought up that i've seen but, DR says burst from skull yes? well i think harry just assumed it would physically burst from his skull, due to preconceived notions about the word 'burst' in corrallation to his experiences eg, facehugger from aliens. the thing is DR isn't an elequent speaker. indeed he barely spoke more then a few sentences before CD. i think this is a miscommunication. it WILL metaphysically burst from his skull, not physically. as a spiritual being. if my other theories are correct 'lash' will then be housed in bobs new vessel, becoming harry's new info source.

I'm more worried about the price that's going to get asked of Harry in order to remove the parasite.

Whether DemonReach meant a physical bursting, a metaphysical bursting, or a mental burst (might leave Harry in a coma again) isn't known at this point, any more than we know how long it meant by "Soon" in response to when it would grow so large it couldn't remain contained in Harry any more. I think a lot of people are hoping DR wasn't being literal, just on account of them not wanting anything bad to happen to Harry (heh, heh, heh... they're reading entirely the wrong series).

A metaphysical bursting, though, would have some equally bad ramifications if it happened. Harry might lose his access to soulfire, if it damages him at the metaphysical level DR seems to think it will. Or the parasite might drain him to the point where he no longer has a soul, taking all of it with itself when it finally emerges.

Back to the theory, though: There's been a lot of speculation that any Ramps who were in the NN at the time the bloodline curse was triggered were not affected by it. (Mostly because, in a creepy way, I think a lot of the forum members here liked the Eebs.) If Arianna's "spirit" got sucked into Dresden right before her physical self died, I'm thinking some of what remained of her would be manifesting either through Harry's thoughts or actions. He *does* think about going for Maeve's throat in Cold Days. But before that, and especially during Ghost Story, Harry doesn't seem to be thinking along the lines of a Red Court vamp.
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Offline GrandPanjandrum

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 01:38:18 AM »
If Arianna's "spirit" got sucked into Dresden right before her physical self died, I'm thinking some of what remained of her would be manifesting either through Harry's thoughts or actions. He *does* think about going for Maeve's throat in Cold Days. But before that, and especially during Ghost Story, Harry doesn't seem to be thinking along the lines of a Red Court vamp.

That's an avenue I didn't travel down.  But, if you think about it, there are a number of occasions in Cold Days where Harry's thoughts (and even some actions) are out of character.  It's easy to associate some of them with the Winter Knight Mantle...but one in particular was somewhat out of character in that regard.  Someone points out to Harry that he is displaying an ownership of Molly.  That behavior is more reflective of the Ramps (food and satiation).  Hell, they ran the sex trade in Chicago before Marcone.  It would be nice if these sporadic unqualified thoughts of his are because of a Ramp and not the Mantle.  I guess that's wishful thinking though.

As far as Harry's thoughts in Ghost Story...he wasn't in his body at the time (not until the very end).  His spirit and soul were on walk-about while the parasite was in his physical body...so I don't think it would apply.
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Offline Tarion

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 01:38:56 AM »
My issue here is that this theory completely discounts the actual headaches in the past.  In Turn Coat, his headaches have gotten so bad that Butters is trying to get him into an MRI machine.  In Cold Days, he says they've been growing "steadily worse" "over the past few years".  Harry certainly doesn't see this as a case of two different types of headaches, but as a continuation of the ones plaguing him. 

i thought death curses were a human thing?
Ebenezar says Mavra can do one, since she has a wizard level talent.

wizard nelson

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 01:46:27 AM »
orbweaver, liverspots was fully human when he cast his death curse, albeit a weak pansy ass one... he was practitioner enough without the coin, so i don't think that counts as non human. a half blood like martin or even thomas might have one too if they knew magic. bianca was full vamp. pretty sure even denarian with a coin is still technically human anyway.

Offline GrandPanjandrum

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 01:52:20 AM »
orbweaver, liverspots was fully human when he cast his death curse, albeit a weak pansy ass one... he was practitioner enough without the coin, so i don't think that counts as non human. a half blood like martin or even thomas might have one too if they knew magic. bianca was full vamp. pretty sure even denarian with a coin is still technically human anyway.

If you think about it...it really doesn't have to be a death curse.  When Corpsetaker changes place with Luccio...it's just really good timing.  I guess it depends on how powerful Arianna was...and how learned.  Based on her age...she had a long time to learn.
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Offline Orbweaver

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 02:16:53 AM »
orbweaver, liverspots was fully human when he cast his death curse, albeit a weak pansy ass one... he was practitioner enough without the coin, so i don't think that counts as non human. a half blood like martin or even thomas might have one too if they knew magic. bianca was full vamp. pretty sure even denarian with a coin is still technically human anyway.

I knew there was another case I was forgetting! Thanks, Tarion. Ebenezar did say Mavra was capable of one, I think during the course of Blood Rites or Dead Beat. Then again, Mavra has shown herself to be far from your typical newbie Black Court vampire.

Yes, Cassius was human when he threw the death curse- but the thing is, the Nickelheads are still human as well (though they have an extremely inhuman element riding shotgun). Again, how human is human?
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Offline madness

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 02:17:10 AM »
Great theory.

I don't agree with it but it is still a great theory.  Well presented.

BTW, one of the comments here got me to thinking of the 'bursting forth' as metaphor for childbirth.

I have been having trouble figuring out why Lash would want to hurt Harry but if it is some sort of metaphysical process that she can not control and she is going to be split off from Harry (cutting the umbilical cord, so to speak) then I can see how the imagery and symbolism could fit.

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 02:23:33 AM »
My issue here is that this theory completely discounts the actual headaches in the past.  In Turn Coat, his headaches have gotten so bad that Butters is trying to get him into an MRI machine.  In Cold Days, he says they've been growing "steadily worse" "over the past few years".  Harry certainly doesn't see this as a case of two different types of headaches, but as a continuation of the ones plaguing him. 
Ebenezar says Mavra can do one, since she has a wizard level talent.
can you throw me a quote? don't own blood rites... :'(

Offline kalinowt

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 02:37:34 AM »
I think the parasite is Lash, or what is left of a reconstituted Lash at any rate. The Red Court that didn't die is likely the Ebes and all the RC shielded in the Erlking's domain. Just a guess, but I think they would have been protected from the curse there as they were not on Earth when the curse activated but in the Nevernever. I predict we'll see the Ebes again-- they are too good of villains for Jim not to use them again.
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Offline catnip13

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Re: The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 02:38:46 AM »
I think that there are surviving Red Court Vampires: Esteban and Esmerelda. They were protected in the Erlking's realm from the curse, and eventually they will work their way free.