Author Topic: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer  (Read 21550 times)

Offline Oblyss

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Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« on: December 14, 2012, 09:01:29 PM »
Hey everyone! I just started getting into this game and I have to say the system looks really amazing. I've never seen such a open ended magic system before and it's definitely been a little paralyzing with what all you can do with it. I'm still trying to learn everything but me and my best friend are starting up and we're still working on our characters and the city.

Before I type up a wall of text here's the gist of it:
 I'm doing my first Dresden RPG session soon, and I'm playing a female White Council necromancer that's not good or evil, and is probably going to take some inspiration from John Constantine in some ways. So while they may not be evil they are going to be doing a lot of questionable things. Their trouble aspect at the moment is, "Walking the Line" to reflect this. My GM suggested this one, but we're both new to aspect ideas.
I'm looking for some help on stuff like skills and items mainly, and suggested aspects, but I'm open to any suggestions on the other parts as well. It looks like they're going to be in a tough position so I want to try and make them statted out in a way to be able to handle it.

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My friend's the GM and we've been working hand in hand on my character and some others. I decided I wanted to play a younger Kemmlerian Necromancer that's with the White Council now after making a war time deal for a pardon, by betraying the Kemmlerites that were training them. Also with their situation being taken under advisement. "Oh well they're just a kid, they didn't even know about the white council until after they were trained as a necromancer." They're of course more in their twenties in age.

My GM is all fine for this, and of course we've both agreed that while it works out, they are still going to have half the council at least convinced they are evil psychos waiting to snap. And the only reason any of this works out is because the Council was in a desperate situation and my character offered an easy out to solve the problem for a minor headache. We've also agreed that means there's going to be a bunch of old school wardens out to kill my character first chance they get. Specifically we got one named "Warden Adams" that's going to more or less be the "Morgan" for my character, but less reasonable.

My character's the only wizard in the group, and there aren't many others. So far there's also a Dragon Knight beholden to Ferrofax.


Here's my second character sheet: http://puu.sh/1ATho

I've got one aspect marked as "Placeholder" and I'm still trying to decide a good one to put there, I'm also open to suggested revisions on the other ones including the high/trouble aspects if a really good one is offered.

Anyway, I apologize if I made a mistake in my post. And I appreciate any suggestions people may have.



Offline DFJunkie

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 10:21:08 PM »
I'm also a little confused about one point.  Kemmler bought it for the last time in 1961, and while I get that your character is younger in relation to Kemmler's other apprentices (Cowl, Corpsetaker, et al.) assuming the game takes place in the modern day that would still put your character in her mid seventies.  Perfectly normal for a Wizard of course, but it also means that she's been a part of the Council for over fifty years now.  Has she continued shady? 

Also, do you have someone who took responsibility for your character like Eb took Harry in?  If she defected it might not be necessary, but maybe have a previous mentor on the Council who took a risk on you.  That could get you an aspect related to your mentor.
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Offline narphoenix

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 10:58:41 PM »
Plus, necromancy is a gross violation of one of the Laws of Magic. Unless she only practiced animal necromancy, and even then, it's a major gray area.
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Offline Oblyss

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 11:15:59 PM »
Quote
I'm also a little confused about one point.  Kemmler bought it for the last time in 1961, and while I get that your character is younger in relation to Kemmler's other apprentices (Cowl, Corpsetaker, et al.) assuming the game takes place in the modern day that would still put your character in her mid seventies.  Perfectly normal for a Wizard of course, but it also means that she's been a part of the Council for over fifty years now.  Has she continued shady? 
My idea was that a one of Kemmler's apprentices had a stronghold somewhere and was recruiting wizards to train in the ways of Kemmler, to be cannon-fodder/scapegoats against the white council or whoever.  So my character isn't a direct apprentice of Kemmler, but of one of his apprentices. This also all took place in Europe, and she later came to America. I may be wrong, but so far this seems to work out well enough. My GM hasn't pointed out a problem with it, but while we're both big time Dresden readers I wouldn't say we're infallible experts.

Quote
Also, do you have someone who took responsibility for your character like Eb took Harry in?  If she defected it might not be necessary, but maybe have a previous mentor on the Council who took a risk on you.  That could get you an aspect related to your mentor.

That's a good question! I actually did consider that idea, but I haven't set it in stone yet. So far it seems to be an "either way" thing, and that maybe they did and maybe they didn't. Off the top of my head, it doesn't seem to make as much sense as Harry Dresden and Ebenezer for Dresden Files book plot reasons regarding the two, but it's not impossible either. I may take you up on this as it would make for interesting play, to have one Warden unofficially hunting her, and another older council member looking out for her to some degree as long as she doesn't do anything too over the line.


Quote
Plus, necromancy is a gross violation of one of the Laws of Magic. Unless she only practiced animal necromancy, and even then, it's a major gray area.

You are correct, though the game is taking place during the Red Court war. Where the rulebook says that wardens investigating shady evidence is going to be "more rare" than before. This is where her one aspect is going to come into play "If the Ref doesn't see it. It's legal."

She's going to have one Warden spying on her a lot and trying to find an excuse to kill her, or give her jobs that'll get her killed.

As for the White Council as a whole, we decided it was going to be the sort of thing they didn't ask to many questions about. Sort of like Inglourious Basterds with the Americans making a deal with the Nazi officer. He gets off "scott free" in return for his part of the bargain. They don't trust them, but they're willing to work with them under supervision in return for what they offer. They aren't placed in any sort of area of actual trust or position to betray them back as well.

I imagine there was a half dozen soul gazes on her and hours of interrogation before they even considered the deal and someone argued it was a good trade on her behalf. It's probably came down to them sweeping past actions under the rug, to a degree. And saying if she ever breaks a law and they catch her they will drop the hammer hard.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 11:42:37 PM »
The big issue with this character mechanically is the Lawbreaker Stunt and her lack of both it and the Refresh to buy it. By background, she should have Lawbreaker - 5th [-2], unless she has only ever used Necromancy on animals (enormously unlikely, I'd personally say impossible, for a Kemmlerite) and possibly other Lawbreaker stunts as well (if she's ever killed for instance). So, that's a definite problem.

Thematically, having an ex-Necromancer seems possible, but a Kemmlerite? Much less so...though I suppose if Kumori came off as sympathetic it's possible.

Offline Oblyss

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 12:09:14 AM »
The big issue with this character mechanically is the Lawbreaker Stunt and her lack of both it and the Refresh to buy it. By background, she should have Lawbreaker - 5th [-2], unless she has only ever used Necromancy on animals (enormously unlikely, I'd personally say impossible, for a Kemmlerite) and possibly other Lawbreaker stunts as well (if she's ever killed for instance). So, that's a definite problem.
I thought the sponsored magic rules keep lawbreaker stunt from being involved as long as you're using the sponsored magic itself to break the laws. The trade on this being the sponsor agenda, otherwise a necromancer would go insane in ten minutes of being one.

Edit: And I just checked Kumori out in the book and she doesn't have the lawbreaker stunt, though it also doesn't list her as having Kemmlerian necromancy. It says it's "unsure if she has full access to it". But I'm pretty sure we see her use necromancy on a human in the Dresden books as well.

Quote
Thematically, having an ex-Necromancer seems possible, but a Kemmlerite? Much less so...though I suppose if Kumori came off as sympathetic it's possible.
It's of course not the most likely of stories, but it's one I find fun and my GM's on board with it. They seem pretty interested the story of the Warden out to get her.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 12:18:34 AM by Oblyss »

Offline narphoenix

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 12:11:06 AM »
Nope. Check Our World. Both Grevane and Capriocorpus have Lawbreaker 5th.
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Offline Oblyss

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 12:22:29 AM »
Nope. Check Our World. Both Grevane and Capriocorpus have Lawbreaker 5th.

You can still get lawbreaker with a sponsor, but standard sponsor benefit seems to allow for negating some law breaking unless I'm mistaken.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 12:24:39 AM »
Not by any of the rules they don't. Some people would argue that they do allow such things...but I've never agreed with them, and think that's thematic hogwash.

There's also the fact that I'm pretty sure you need to be a Necromancer (ie: have Lawbreaker - 5th) before you can even become a Kemmlerite...just logically.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 12:31:36 AM by Deadmanwalking »

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 12:35:48 AM »
You could be a necromancer who hasn't gone all the way corrupt yet.  Say that you worked mainly with an animals or find the points to pick up a level or two law breaker.

In the books, Kumori is a non-Kemmlerite necromancer who isn't evil.  Crazy and in denial about it, sure, but not evil.

Richard

Offline Haru

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 12:59:27 AM »
Necromancy doesn't necessarily have to be about killing and reanimating. It can also be about controlling ghosts and the likes. Maybe not even ghosts, just death energy of some kind or another.

You could look at it like this: every action has an equal but opposite reaction. So every spell you do is not one action, but a pair of action-reaction. Now most wizards learn to use magic a certain way, what I would call the action in the simile. Necromantic magic seems to work the other way around, creating what would usually be the reaction, so the action occurs. Granted, this will only translate very roughly to magic, but I hope you get my point. Necromancy, without killing or raising anyone or anything. Harry says so himself, Magic springs from life, Necromancy from death. Kumori says something along those lines as well, and she says that Necromancy can be turned to do good.

In some applications, the necromantic method might even be better than the magic everyone else is using. We don't have much to go on there, but I think that could be something that would let you walk the straight and narrow, while still having necromancy.

Spinning off this idea, every warden of the white council will probably feel the necromantic energies around you, that doesn't seem to be something that can easily be hidden. However. once they soulgaze you they will find out, that you never killed anyone, never intend to, that there is something about the necromantic energy around you, that might not be inherently bad, and they will definitely see, that you never broke a law. Add to that a sponsor, and you are good to go.

I would keep Kemmlerian Necromancy from your sheet, though, because that definitely is the darkest dark of necromancy and will, like Deadmanwalking said almost certainly come with a lawbreaker. attached. If you do put it on your sheet and use it, you will end up on the dark side, and if you don't use it, you have two points of dead weight in your refresh pool. Refinement would be the better way to go there, I think. If you want to have a Kemmlerian background, put it in one of your aspects, so if you really want to go there, you can draw upon it that way.

Speaking of aspects: I think "walking the line" and "if the ref doesn't see it, it's legal" are basically saying the same thing, and I feel that the second one is way more fuego than the first, and might make for a better trouble aspect, while conveying the same message.

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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 01:06:50 AM »
Two minor notes on the above: Firstly, ghosts are not technically people, messing with them is thus Ectomancy not Necromancy. Secondly, even non-'Evil' necromancy (like Kumori saving that guy's life in Deadbeat) will get you Lawbreaker - 5th if it involves human beings. Just not Lawbreaker - 1st or any other Lawbreaker stunts.

Offline Oblyss

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 01:12:41 AM »
Not by any of the rules they don't. Some people would argue that they don't...but I've never agreed with them, and think that's thematic hogwash.

There's also the fact that I'm pretty sure you need to be a Necromancer (ie: have Lawbreaker - 5th) before you can even become a Kemmlerite...just logically.

Kumori doesn't have lawbreaker and she's clearly a necromancer and has used the abilities. In any case, I wasn't looking to butt heads on it. I understand some people might be against the idea but my GM and group think it to be a fun concept and no one sees any mechanical issues with it in the rule book. I was hoping more in input from more experienced players about the selection of skills/items and such for a wizard in their position for someone new to the game.


Quote
You could be a necromancer who hasn't gone all the way corrupt yet.  Say that you worked mainly with an animals or find the points to pick up a level or two law breaker.

In the books, Kumori is a non-Kemmlerite necromancer who isn't evil.  Crazy and in denial about it, sure, but not evil.

Richard

I do understand people's suggestion that lawbreaker would make more sense, and I do agree. I just also feel it's not completely necessary, and I'm working on the 10 point refresh otherwise I'd have been happy to throw that in as well. Though I will talk to my Gm and see about what they want to do, I understand it's not completely unthinkable to bump the refresh up by one for everyone at the GM and group's discretion. I'll ask what they think, but I'm not going to argue if they want me to leave things as they are.

Thanks for suggestions though Richard, they're a good example. As I mentioned already I'm taking some inspiration for my character from John Constantine from Hellblazer, the "hero" of the comics. Though most people would describe him as being a bit of a bastard rather than a hero, though they wouldn't describe him as a villain either. An "Any means necessary" type trying to do the right thing, but also a little too selfish for self sacrifice.


Necromancy doesn't necessarily have to be about killing and reanimating. It can also be about controlling ghosts and the likes. Maybe not even ghosts, just death energy of some kind or another.

You could look at it like this: every action has an equal but opposite reaction. So every spell you do is not one action, but a pair of action-reaction. Now most wizards learn to use magic a certain way, what I would call the action in the simile. Necromantic magic seems to work the other way around, creating what would usually be the reaction, so the action occurs. Granted, this will only translate very roughly to magic, but I hope you get my point. Necromancy, without killing or raising anyone or anything. Harry says so himself, Magic springs from life, Necromancy from death. Kumori says something along those lines as well, and she says that Necromancy can be turned to do good.

In some applications, the necromantic method might even be better than the magic everyone else is using. We don't have much to go on there, but I think that could be something that would let you walk the straight and narrow, while still having necromancy.

Spinning off this idea, every warden of the white council will probably feel the necromantic energies around you, that doesn't seem to be something that can easily be hidden. However. once they soulgaze you they will find out, that you never killed anyone, never intend to, that there is something about the necromantic energy around you, that might not be inherently bad, and they will definitely see, that you never broke a law. Add to that a sponsor, and you are good to go.

I would keep Kemmlerian Necromancy from your sheet, though, because that definitely is the darkest dark of necromancy and will, like Deadmanwalking said almost certainly come with a lawbreaker. attached. If you do put it on your sheet and use it, you will end up on the dark side, and if you don't use it, you have two points of dead weight in your refresh pool. Refinement would be the better way to go there, I think. If you want to have a Kemmlerian background, put it in one of your aspects, so if you really want to go there, you can draw upon it that way.

Speaking of aspects: I think "walking the line" and "if the ref doesn't see it, it's legal" are basically saying the same thing, and I feel that the second one is way more fuego than the first, and might make for a better trouble aspect, while conveying the same message.


Thanks Haru! There was some very good points you brought up. I'm definitely going to consider these things. And if I switch the trouble aspect out it would give me a good rearrangement for the rest of my aspects so I think I will definitely take you up on that.

I agree with all your points on the necromancy, it's definitely not going to be a secret from the council, just for now she's not going to be a top priority on their list. They're more or less watching and waiting. They feel any of them could take her out if they need to, they're seeing if she can be useful to them. The war is going on so they're definitely trying to make use of her, at her expense. And if she gets herself killed doing it, it's one less headache for them. Most of them will definitely not be comfortable around her.


Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 01:14:30 AM »
Personally, I think the Lawbreaker Power shouldn't be mandatory for people who break the Laws. Because having a Wizard PC break a Law and suffer the consequences for that is fun, and the mandatory-ness of the Lawbreaker Power interferes with that story.

So I recommend you just ignore the thing that says you need to take Lawbreaker. Don't let the oddities of the rules get in the way of your game.

Requiring that breaking a Law affect your Aspects is pretty cool, though. Aspect changes are a great way to represent corruption.

Offline Oblyss

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Re: Newbie to the game: Non-Evil Necromancer
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 01:24:55 AM »
Personally, I think the Lawbreaker Power shouldn't be mandatory for people who break the Laws. Because having a Wizard PC break a Law and suffer the consequences for that is fun, and the mandatory-ness of the Lawbreaker Power interferes with that story.

So I recommend you just ignore the thing that says you need to take Lawbreaker. Don't let the oddities of the rules get in the way of your game.

Requiring that breaking a Law affect your Aspects is pretty cool, though. Aspect changes are a great way to represent corruption.

Well that's the thing, I just don't see anything that actually says it is mandatory. It all seems to be a pretty vague area regarding sponsored kemmler and the laws. Currently my GM has ruled that I'll be more 'resistant' to lawbreaker corruption under specific circumstances, but not immune to corruption by any means. And that the sponsor agenda (Death) will constantly be hanging over head. I also do not doubt at some point my character will become a lawbreaker. Though they aren't going to set out to do it.