Author Topic: FATE Core and DFRPG  (Read 21056 times)

Offline Aminar

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2013, 09:16:52 PM »
Why cast a spell?  Maneuver to make the other person cast better.  Don't waste a spell/mental stress.  A maneuver grants a +2 if you pass the tag.  Make a declaration too, and now you've got +4.  Not insubstantial.
Explain to me a manuever that doesn't involve magic that boosts the magical strength of a zone wide armor evocation.  And don't tell me yelling inspiring things?

Offline fantazero

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2013, 09:28:32 PM »
Explain to me a manuever that doesn't involve magic that boosts the magical strength of a zone wide armor evocation.  And don't tell me yelling inspiring things?
lighting some incense, putting on some Kenny G?

Offline Aminar

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2013, 09:33:31 PM »
lighting some incense, putting on some Kenny G?

Incense on a battlefield won't help focus and as for Kenny G?  I don't see it.  Maybe throwing on some Ozzy...  But that doesn't take a wizard anyway, and will likely get fried by said wizard... I can say those would both work great for a wizard in a circle using Thaumaturgy.  But not Evocation when armor is needed.

Offline JDK002

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2013, 09:46:49 PM »
Explain to me a manuever that doesn't involve magic that boosts the magical strength of a zone wide armor evocation.  And don't tell me yelling inspiring things?
You're falling into a mind set that a lot of people do with magic in this game.  That the mundane can't impact the magical. 

Remember a maneuver does not have to directly interact with the magic to make it more effective.  How loose you can play this depends on the GM, but it's possible.

Example: Vinilla Mortal lobs a flashbang gernade to create the aspect "blind and disoriented" on the enemy.  A GM may then allow the wizard creating a zone wide armor evocation to tag that aspect when casting.  The rationalization?  The enemy is having a much harder time landing direct hits to the point where they aren't as lethal, and allow this to be represented as additional armor bonus on the spell.

Remember, armor and stress is more abstract than it is literal. 

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 01:58:31 AM »
Explain to me a manuever that doesn't involve magic that boosts the magical strength of a zone wide armor evocation.  And don't tell me yelling inspiring things.

Dousing everyone in water to avoid a fire attack. Throwing a flashbang or turning off the lights to weaken the attack being defended against.Those are off the top of my head.

Offline Aminar

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 03:38:18 AM »
You're falling into a mind set that a lot of people do with magic in this game.  That the mundane can't impact the magical. 

Remember a maneuver does not have to directly interact with the magic to make it more effective.  How loose you can play this depends on the GM, but it's possible.

Example: Vinilla Mortal lobs a flashbang gernade to create the aspect "blind and disoriented" on the enemy.  A GM may then allow the wizard creating a zone wide armor evocation to tag that aspect when casting.  The rationalization?  The enemy is having a much harder time landing direct hits to the point where they aren't as lethal, and allow this to be represented as additional armor bonus on the spell.

Remember, armor and stress is more abstract than it is literal.
Right.  because that's just another Flashbang affect.  There is a set of rules for that.  Aspects are the catch all for the game.  They work wonders.  Abstracting other game mechanics like that...  It messes with the players.  Armor is something that physically slows the bullets.
And it isn't anything to do with the system.  It has a whole lot to do with the gameworld where Magic is pretty much affected by magic on the positive side of things.  There are a multitude of ways to weaken it.  But few to strengthen it that a mortal can handle.
Off the top of my head the closest things seen have been the times Harry pulled energy from one place to another.  I can see someone starting a car and the wizard yanking the internal combustion energy to power a spell.  But I can't say that's a manuever.  Possibly an application of the drive skill to keep it going while so much energy is being drained.

Your flashbang thing is an aspect giving a free tag to dodge.  How does one use a spell to enhance that effect?  More light and sound sure. But making that armor is silly and unnecessary.

The water to stop fire is an aspect allowing tags against the attack.  Not armor.  It can give the aspect wet which can be tagged to boost water spells.  But the water was already there(nearby) in all reality and so could be tagged without the action to unleash it.

Now, i've got you stretching pretty far on that one, which makes my point well enough.  It's all very very situational.  The characters are more likely to be by a layline.

Now, a thing I noticed while looking through the fatecore stuff.
None of the magic systems appear to cause mental stress. Thoughts?  It reinforces my thought that the refresh costs of evocation powers in DFRPG are higher than they would be in Fatecore.  However I also don't see weapon values so I could be wrong.  But I think it might be interesting that using the powers at 0 weapon value might be a zero stress action then. SO for instance dodging with Discipline via a quickly raised shield that deflects the bullet for 0 stress.

Offline Orladdin

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 03:27:25 PM »
Right.  because that's just another Flashbang affect.  There is a set of rules for that.  Aspects are the catch all for the game.  They work wonders.  Abstracting other game mechanics like that...  It messes with the players.  Armor is something that physically slows the bullets.
And it isn't anything to do with the system.  It has a whole lot to do with the gameworld where Magic is pretty much affected by magic on the positive side of things.  There are a multitude of ways to weaken it.  But few to strengthen it that a mortal can handle.
Off the top of my head the closest things seen have been the times Harry pulled energy from one place to another.  I can see someone starting a car and the wizard yanking the internal combustion energy to power a spell.  But I can't say that's a manuever.  Possibly an application of the drive skill to keep it going while so much energy is being drained.

Your flashbang thing is an aspect giving a free tag to dodge.  How does one use a spell to enhance that effect?  More light and sound sure. But making that armor is silly and unnecessary.

The water to stop fire is an aspect allowing tags against the attack.  Not armor.  It can give the aspect wet which can be tagged to boost water spells.  But the water was already there(nearby) in all reality and so could be tagged without the action to unleash it.

Now, i've got you stretching pretty far on that one, which makes my point well enough.  It's all very very situational.  The characters are more likely to be by a layline.

Now, a thing I noticed while looking through the fatecore stuff.
None of the magic systems appear to cause mental stress. Thoughts?  It reinforces my thought that the refresh costs of evocation powers in DFRPG are higher than they would be in Fatecore.  However I also don't see weapon values so I could be wrong.  But I think it might be interesting that using the powers at 0 weapon value might be a zero stress action then. SO for instance dodging with Discipline via a quickly raised shield that deflects the bullet for 0 stress.

Wow, your view of magic is very narrow and restricting.  Especially in Dresden's world where magic is fueled by belief and fighting spirit.

Why wouldn't the drive roll you mention be a maneuver to place the Combustion Energy aspect on the scene?

I think you're too tied in to a specific interpretation of the rules.  FATE is best at being a free-form, "yeah, it does exactly that cool thing you just came up with" system.  Let me ask you this: Imagine for a moment that you're playing FATE basic, without any setting-specific rules or Powers and just using aspects.  Would you let someone be a wizard?  Why not?

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Offline JDK002

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2013, 04:08:58 PM »
Right.  because that's just another Flashbang affect.  There is a set of rules for that.  Aspects are the catch all for the game.  They work wonders.  Abstracting other game mechanics like that...  It messes with the players.  Armor is something that physically slows the bullets.
And it isn't anything to do with the system.  It has a whole lot to do with the gameworld where Magic is pretty much affected by magic on the positive side of things.  There are a multitude of ways to weaken it.  But few to strengthen it that a mortal can handle.
Off the top of my head the closest things seen have been the times Harry pulled energy from one place to another.  I can see someone starting a car and the wizard yanking the internal combustion energy to power a spell.  But I can't say that's a manuever.  Possibly an application of the drive skill to keep it going while so much energy is being drained.

Your flashbang thing is an aspect giving a free tag to dodge.  How does one use a spell to enhance that effect?  More light and sound sure. But making that armor is silly and unnecessary.

The water to stop fire is an aspect allowing tags against the attack.  Not armor.  It can give the aspect wet which can be tagged to boost water spells.  But the water was already there(nearby) in all reality and so could be tagged without the action to unleash it.

Now, i've got you stretching pretty far on that one, which makes my point well enough.  It's all very very situational.  The characters are more likely to be by a layline.

Now, a thing I noticed while looking through the fatecore stuff.
None of the magic systems appear to cause mental stress. Thoughts?  It reinforces my thought that the refresh costs of evocation powers in DFRPG are higher than they would be in Fatecore.  However I also don't see weapon values so I could be wrong.  But I think it might be interesting that using the powers at 0 weapon value might be a zero stress action then. SO for instance dodging with Discipline via a quickly raised shield that deflects the bullet for 0 stress.
I think you're grossly undervaluing how aspects work and what they can do.  Throwing a flashbang as a maneuver isn't just a "free tag to dodge".  It's anything the aspect created by the maneuver can justify.  An aspect of "blinded and disoriented" can be used to get a +2 to a defense roll or attack roll, it could be tagged for effect to make someone drop their weapon, or to cause them to accidentally shoot the teammate in front of them.  Or anything else a clever player may think of.  You don't have to determine the effect an aspect has until ts tagged or invoked.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: FATE Core and DFRPG
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2013, 01:07:56 AM »
More specifically relevant to the issue of stacking armour is the fact that the scale for such things in DFrpg (and FATE in general) is very much non-linear.
A pocket-knife is weapon:1.  Armour that generally negates the advantage an attacker would otherwise have by using a pocket-knife (as compared to an average individual making use of fists and feet, etc.) is armour:1.
Most pistols are weapon:2, as are most one-handed swords.  A mundane version of armour:2 is likely some variation on a kevlar vest, or a suit of mail (aka 'chainmail').
An anti-personel grenade or high-powered rifle (heavy sniper rifle or light anti-material rifle) is around weapon:4.  A mundane version of armour:4 is probably pretty close to the sort of thing worn by professionals trying to defuse a bomb.  It's definitely not a piddly little kevlar vest worn over (or under) some chainmail, even if one of them is mundane and one of them is made of pure force held together by the will of a Practitioner of the Art.

Armour:4 + Armour:1 is such a far cry from Armour:5 that it's not worth accounting for, and what that character is left with is Armour:4.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:15:28 AM by Tedronai »
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