[CD spoilers] Small Favor

[TheCuriousFan]

And I don't see Tiny coming anywhere near killing Harry.

Why do you think that?

Indeed.

I would argue that Titania is following a pattern of sending her minions out on apparently hostile-to-Winter missions with the end result of helping Harry and Winter; Lily and Fix in PG also count here.

I would also argue that we see what happens when a Faerie Queen really wants someone not to act against their interest in Mab's treatment of Slate and infected!Lea.  No loopholes there at all.

There's a whole world of difference difference between "I don't want you doing anything" and "I want you to still be active but don't want you to do a certain thing". What Mab did with Slate and Lea was the former, what Titania did with Fix and Lily was the latter.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Why do you think that?

Because in the text he doesn't.  Harry defeats him handily.

There's a whole world of difference difference between "I don't want you doing anything" and "I want you to still be active but don't want you to do a certain thing". What Mab did with Slate and Lea was the former, what Titania did with Fix and Lily was the latter.

I'm not finding it particularly credible that Titania could repeatedly - with Fix and Lily in PG, with Fix in SmF, and with Eldest at the end of SmF - almost, but not quite, prevent her forces from helping Harry; I find it much easier to believe, given that the outcomes of those books benefit Faerie pretty much equally (Denarian Ivy is equally bad news for Summer or Winter), that Titania is getting what she wants while preserving plausible deniability.

[IndeedProceed]

May I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix: (Fix made no move toward the shotgun.
“Harry,” he said, as the truck started to pull out. His mouth twitched a few times before he blurted, “Remember the leaf Lily gave you.”)

But they were using the leaf to track Harry. That's what Fix was talking about. Elder Gruff explicitly said that the favor guaranteed by the leaf wasn't in its self enough to grant Harry his life, so either Fix is crappy at helping people, or that was a whole 'nother thing.

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

But they were using the leaf to track Harry. That's what Fix was talking about. Elder Gruff explicitly said that the favor guaranteed by the leaf wasn't in its self enough to grant Harry his life, so either Fix is crappy at helping people, or that was a whole 'nother thing.

Except that was what tipped Harry off to the fact that they were tracking him via the leaf, and gave him the idea of the the LC-Mister-Catnip trick.

[IndeedProceed]

Except that was what tipped Harry off to the fact that they were tracking him via the leaf, and gave him the idea of the the LC-Mister-Catnip trick.

Right, I'm 100% on board here. Fix warned Harry, against the spirit of the command given him, and informed him how to at least postpone his near-death experiences.

I was saying that Fix telling harry to remember the leaf wasn't fix telling Harry to remember the leaf when a short humanoid wizard killing billy goat confronts you on a sentient island.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Right, I'm 100% on board here. Fix warned Harry, against the spirit of the command given him, and informed him how to at least postpone his near-death experiences.

I'm saying, against the letter of the command given him, but that in the spirit; because if it were against the spirit, Titania would have made it against the letter.

[knnn]

This ties into something that's been niggling at me for a while:

“Indeed,” he said. “You were made an Esquire of Summer, and granted a boon, but…” He shook his head. “A boon can be a matter of importance, but not one this grave. Thou canst not ask me to yield to thee in a matter of conflict between the Courts themselves.”

“I won’t,” I said. “But just so we’re clear. Once both of us have left this island, the matter is closed?”
...
<snip doughnut conversation>
...
He bowed his head in reply. “Understand, young wizard, I may not aid thee further.”

“You’re pushing the rules enough already,” I said dryly. “Believe me. I know how that is.”

Emphasis mine.

Remember, that at this point, neither Marcone nor the Archive are in play, so the only thing remaining is the formality of officially leaving the island.  The fact that "Eldest" even mentions the notion of aiding Harry further almost implies to me that Harry could have requested him (e.g.) to stomp on all the remaining Denarians and their goons before continuing the "contest", and Eldest would have obliged him.  Harry (of course) misses this hint but finds a less efficient (but FAR cooler) solution with his doughnut request.

[Lord Rae]

Question it raises for me, though; if Nemesis-through-Namshiel is working towards entrapping and infecting the Archive, what's Nemesis-through-Maeve's motive in sending in the hobs ?  Crossed wires or variant motives among the Nemesis hosts seems to run counter to what we are told in CD about the nature of Outsiders.

If you want the Archive to stop trusting Harry how would you do it? Nemesis/Maeve sends the Hobs right as Harry shows up and Harry is the winter emissary. Doesn't the Hob attack feel more like a mortal underestimating the Archive than Mab or Maeve underestimating her? Nevermind the other people there, there was no chance of that attack doing anything other than making the people there question Winter's motives. Heck maybe the reason Tiny showed up when he did was so that Harry wouldn't reach the archive at the inappropriate time?

Winter creatures acting to help the coming darkness is an ongoing theme throughout several of the books and all of it has created is tension between Mab and potential allies. Which also makes me kind of wonder if the spiders in Turncoat were there on orders from Maeve as well helping the BC/Nemesis allies on the island.

[kytheros]

If you want the Archive to stop trusting Harry how would you do it? Nemesis/Maeve sends the Hobs right as Harry shows up and Harry is the winter emissary. Doesn't the Hob attack feel more like a mortal underestimating the Archive than Mab or Maeve underestimating her? Nevermind the other people there, there was no chance of that attack doing anything other than making the people there question Winter's motives. Heck maybe the reason Tiny showed up when he did was so that Harry wouldn't reach the archive at the inappropriate time?

Winter creatures acting to help the coming darkness is an ongoing theme throughout several of the books and all of it has created is tension between Mab and potential allies. Which also makes me kind of wonder if the spiders in Turncoat were there on orders from Maeve as well helping the BC/Nemesis allies on the island.

Ah, but Harry and Michael weren't there (at Union Station) to meet the Archive and escort. They were there to retrieve Gard's samples.

[Lord Rae]

And Maeve/Nemesis and or Titania knew that how?

[kytheros]

And Maeve/Nemesis and or Titania knew that how?

What makes you assume that they knew he was there in the first place?

The Gruff showed up after Harry used fire magic (which was/is apparently still touched by or resonant with Summer power in some way) - that's why Tiny was there. Titania had no active involvement in his arrival other than tasking the Gruffs with whacking Dresden.

If you assume Maeve/Nemesis sent the Hobs, which seems likely, they were going after the Archive, not Dresden, or trying to attrite the Archive's defenders/defenses so that getting her later would be easier.

[Lord Rae]

I'm just saying agents of Summer and agents of Winter both show up in one place and you think its a coincidence?

[Arjan]

I'm just saying agents of Summer and agents of Winter both show up in one place and you think its a coincidence?

Of course not. But remember there was also a knight of the cross on site so forget coincidence. 

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

I like Arjan's theory - it means that Nemesis has multiple plans going, and makes it seem like a credible opponent for Mab. Uriel (presumably) makes sure that Harry and Michael are there to take the hobs out - but there's one problem: Harry's been cut off from his blasting rod at this point - and I'm not sure whether Harry's pulled the Catnip Trick yet. If he hasn't then that's how the Gruffs tracking him, but if he hasn't, then how are they there?

[TheCuriousFan]

I like Arjan's theory - it means that Nemesis has multiple plans going, and makes it seem like a credible opponent for Mab. Uriel (presumably) makes sure that Harry and Michael are there to take the hobs out - but there's one problem: Harry's been cut off from his blasting rod at this point - and I'm not sure whether Harry's pulled the Catnip Trick yet. If he hasn't then that's how the Gruffs tracking him, but if he hasn't, then how are they there?

He made a little ball of sunshine.