[CD spoilers] Small Favor

[TheCuriousFan]

One thing about SmF.. Mab forsaw much of it, part of what happens is Mab first introduces Harry and the island together. In CD, harry himself notes this

You were real happy with certain sections of Cold Days, weren't you Ms Duck?

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

Actually, my theory about the Hobs is that they weren't aimed at the Archive at all - Ivy held off ALL the denarians at once, so the hobs aren't going to present a credible threat to her.

They were actually aimed at Harry. On his own, just him and Mouse, he'd have stood no chance, even if he had dispelled the Myrk. Nemesis-through-Maeve was trying to take Mab's emissary out, thus sowing discord between the WC and Winter. This works on the assumption that, if Harry had died, Luccio would have set the meet up as well. Thankfully, Uriel saw to it that the Fist of God was also in attendance.

[Ms Duck]

You were real happy with certain sections of Cold Days, weren't you Ms Duck?

about 85%.. Lol

im being nice and not brining up certain old arguments and flamewars

[IndeedProceed]

Titania

Titania was just an idiot. She sends (WOJ) her minions to counter Mab's minions, and kill the winter emissary, without looking at the big picture.

Two possible explanations (Thx GrandPanjandrum and wildfire393):

- due to a severe breakdown in communication (one millennium since their last conversation ), Titania could not see the big picture

- due to her very nature she had to respond to Mab. Yet her response still let Harry escape in the end (Fix gives him the idea about the leaf).

The whole thing with Titania and Summer in Small Favor just misses the mark for me. Titania is a mirror of Mab, she ought to be aware that the abduction of one party of the accords by another party of the accords is not something that can be allowed to happen without retaliation by any of them.

So not only does Summer fail to aid the efforts to punish the Denarians, she actively opposes those efforts and impedes them and nearly kills the one guy trying to set it right in the process.

I also understand that Summer can't change their spots, so Aurora's death can't go unaddressed forever, and I understand the nature of the Summer/Winter relationship.

But somehow I just don't buy that Summer can't see the far, far reaching ramifications of the abduction not only of Marcone but also of Ivy. Not taking an active role in the effort is one thing, but taking an antagonistic role in Harry's investigation, that's nuts. It seems to me that Titania is actually exercising free will there (and later, when she doesn't kill Harry in CD despite her Summer nature demanding such).

And it also doesn't really jive that Harry gets becomes a bullseye that gets shot at just because of his emissary status, when there wasn't a formal force against Harry in SK. Maybe Titania can only come after him when he's associated with Faerie?

But then, why not a more concerted effort in Cold Days (actually, why not any effort at all)?

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

The reason Titania didn't come after Harry in Pg was he wasn't formally involved, and thus untouchable to Titania. However, assuming no Nemesis in Titania (and really, we've no reason to think there is), then Titania really, really, wants to kill Harry. Added to the fact that it seems that Summer must always act in opposition to, or concert with (basically, they've gotta do something if Mab does) Winter in some way, then Titania taking a shot at Harry makes sense.

Remember, Titania is motivated by emotion. It's her job to stop Mab. It's Mab's job to stop the Outsiders. Mab looks at the big picture, and considering that she and Titania haven't communicated since Hastings, it's probable Titania didn't know that Nemesis was behind Namshiel.

In fact, the breakdown of the Accords helps Titania - it makes Winter less able to act in the Mortal world. Sure, it makes Nemesis' job easier, but Titania may think "welp, that's outside my job description".

[raidem]

I'd argue though that Titania wants to give payback to the outsiders for corrupting her Aurora.  I'm sure she isn't over those emotions and is waiting for opportune time for payback.  And, it can't be Harry who she is helping, someone else yes but not Harry directly.  She seems quite final on that.  Hmm.

I wonder if it would be possible to change the circumstance of Aurora's death to not be with the use of iron blades.  Would that temper Titania's angst?  Also, I hope Harry does something special for Titania.  I feel sorry for her.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

The whole thing with Titania and Summer in Small Favor just misses the mark for me. Titania is a mirror of Mab, she ought to be aware that the abduction of one party of the accords by another party of the accords is not something that can be allowed to happen without retaliation by any of them.

So not only does Summer fail to aid the efforts to punish the Denarians, she actively opposes those efforts and impedes them and nearly kills the one guy trying to set it right in the process.

But that's not what she's actually doing, I would contend.

Mab can't directly coerce Harry to do any particular task - she gave her word on that point in SK. Titania sending hunters after Harry is doing that coercion for Mab.  As for the degree of danger she's actually putting Harry in; anybody looking at Harry's record prior to SmF will correctly conclude that lesser gruffs have no real chance to succeed against him - and Eldest clearly has not been given orders that lock him down to killing Harry rather than leading Harry to the loophole that saves him, which to my mind is clearly deliberate.

[IndeedProceed]

But that's not what she's actually doing, I would contend.

Mab can't directly coerce Harry to do any particular task - she gave her word on that point in SK. Titania sending hunters after Harry is doing that coercion for Mab.  As for the degree of danger she's actually putting Harry in; anybody looking at Harry's record prior to SmF will correctly conclude that lesser gruffs have no real chance to succeed against him - and Eldest clearly has not been given orders that lock him down to killing Harry rather than leading Harry to the loophole that saves him, which to my mind is clearly deliberate.

So you're contending that Titania sent gruffs to menace Harry and the carpenters (with clear orders to kill and maim), to kill Harry with automatic weapons, forcing him to jump off a roof to get away, and to send a gigantic giant-sized gruff who very nearly killed him in multiple instances within their kerfuffle, and then she continued to menace him by sending a Gruff who was a heavy hitter even after Ivy and Marcone had be rescued, with the idea that the heavy hitter gruff would lure Harry into uncovering a loophole Harry had never considered previous to the conversation with the Eldest Gruff, and Titania did all thise to make Harry do Mab's thing harder? (TWSS)

Just seems like the Rube Goldberg machine of plot devices.

[knnn]

From Summer Knight (emphasis mine):

"Thank God she's not too arrogant or anything," Billy muttered.  "It seems to me that Mab is going to be handed a huge advantage in this.  Why didn't Aurora just work together with Mab?"

"It probably never occurred to her to try it that way.  She's Summer.  Mab is Winter.  The two don't work together."

"Small favors," Billy said.  "So what do we do to help?"

Clue?

[Elegast]

From Summer Knight (emphasis mine):

Clue?

Awesome quote. 

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

So you're contending that Titania sent gruffs to menace Harry and the carpenters (with clear orders to kill and maim), to kill Harry with automatic weapons, forcing him to jump off a roof to get away, and to send a gigantic giant-sized gruff who very nearly killed him in multiple instances within their kerfuffle,

Indeed I am.

If you look at Nicodemus in DM, he has Harry tied up  and trapped and he is still wary around Harry, because Harry has already at that point killed Justin, Victor Sells, Kravos, Bianca and Aurora.  During the time between then and SmF, Harry can add a couple of Kemmlerites, a successful raid in Arctis Tor, facing down the Merlin, and the Raith Deeps to his scorecard; as the Wardens' behaviour on Demonreach in TC shows, a) Harry is seriously scary and b) Harry totally does not get that that's the case.

Sending little gruffs after Harry makes no more sense as a serious threat than sending hobs after the Archive.  Automatic weapons ?  Harry showed at the end of GP that his shield can easily handle that.  And I don't see Tiny coming anywhere near killing Harry.

and then she continued to menace him by sending a Gruff who was a heavy hitter even after Ivy and Marcone had be rescued,

It seems clear from the initial description of gruffs in SmF to me that once Harry defeats any gruffs the next lot along have to come after him.

with the idea that the heavy hitter gruff would lure Harry into uncovering a loophole Harry had never considered previous to the conversation with the Eldest Gruff,

With the idea that Eldest would chat with Harry and spoonfeed him information until Harry figured the loophole out, yes. 

and Titania did all thise to make Harry do Mab's thing harder? (TWSS)

Titania did all this to make Harry do Mab's thing at all.  Without that nothing prevents Harry from walking away, and I'm not seeing Harry having that much desire to save Marcone out of the goodness of his heart.

We have confirmation in CD that at a cosmic level Winter and Summer work together.  Every book in the series that has apparent Faerie conflict (SK, PG, SmF) comes to a resolution that benefits both Winter and Summer.  So Winter and Summer having to oppose each other seems to me an annoying constraint that in practice they work around with some inteliigence, in much the same way as being unable to tell a direct lie does nothing to prevent them from misleading and manipulating people.

Just seems like the Rube Goldberg machine of plot devices.

The Faerie Queens are superhuman. Post-CD, we see even more evidence of their capacity for long-term intricate chess-game plotting. So I do not find the plot I outline difficult to believe in at all.  particularly because anything involving Eldest is not "set this in motion and it works out the way I want" but "my agent is right there on the ground steering it the way I want".

[knnn]

Indeed I am.

I generally agree with you on this, but how do you explain the Kelpies on the way to the island?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I generally agree with you on this, but how do you explain the Kelpies on the way to the island?

An apparently hostile attack without the sort of breathing space Eldest has for leading Harry to the way out, against a boat containing a Denarian, two Knights and Harry, to my mind falls under the heading of "there is no plausible way this can succeed but it will look like an attack and keep Harry thinking he's under siege by Summer".

SmF has rather a lot of faerie misdirection; most visibly, with Harry not realising in his first encounter with Mab that she's hiding his combat fire magic from him.  I see this as fitting that pattern, as I do with Harry's conversation with Mab at the end.

[Elegast]

with the idea that the heavy hitter gruff would lure Harry into uncovering a loophole Harry had never considered previous to the conversation with the Eldest Gruff

May I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix:

Fix nodded.
We didn’t speak for almost a minute.
Then I laid the shotgun down in the snow, nodded, and got back into Thomas’s truck. I gave the huge automatic back to my brother. Fix made no move toward the shotgun.
“Harry,” he said, as the truck started to pull out. His mouth twitched a few times before he blurted, “Remember the leaf Lily gave you.”

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

May I remind you this conversation between Harry and Fix:

Indeed.

I would argue that Titania is following a pattern of sending her minions out on apparently hostile-to-Winter missions with the end result of helping Harry and Winter; Lily and Fix in PG also count here.

I would also argue that we see what happens when a Faerie Queen really wants someone not to act against their interest in Mab's treatment of Slate and infected!Lea.  No loopholes there at all.