Dialogues with Portents and Parents

[knnn]

Anyone can post their own copies of excerpts in a response to this topic and I (or another curator *looks significantly at knnn*) can paste them into the proper cronology of the OP.

Challenge accepted! 

[Quantus]

I looked around and confirmed (as much as I can) that those bits are not actually in any of the common translations of the Bible, so I think they are more foreshadowing.


I thought we concluded it was a weird mash-up of Corinthians 13:4-13, the Necronomicon, and Genesis 1:1.

I see where you posted that theory, but the thread as a whole devolved into a discussion of the nature of the Wampire weaknesses and Faith in general, and never really made any conclusions on the original topic.

[knnn]

I see where you posted that theory, but the thread as a whole devolved into a discussion of the nature of the Wampire weaknesses and Faith in general, and never really made any conclusions on the original topic.

Fair enough.  I suppose that even if the quotes are all there, the fact that Thomas quotes em all together means that someone in the White Court has a really unique Bible lying around.

[Quantus]

Fair enough.  I suppose that even if the quotes are all there, the fact that Thomas quotes em all together means that someone in the White Court has a really unique Bible lying around.

And the Necronomicon does exist in world.  IN fact, it was mentioned in the same book, as something the White Council had published to de-power some rituals it contained.

[ImpishMortal]

Serack, might you also consider adding Patterns to the title of this thread? There seem to be many patterns of significance, be they in-verse or of the meta variety.

So far, we have the Denarians recurring every five books and a few others that escape me. Although I think with Cold Days Jim has established that in another seven books, we'll have a book taking place on Halloween. How fitting would that be to kick off the end?

[Quantus]

Serack, might you also consider adding Patterns to the title of this thread? There seem to be many patterns of significance, be they in-verse or of the meta variety.

So far, we have the Denarians recurring every five books and a few others that escape me. Although I think with Cold Days Jim has established that in another seven books, we'll have a book taking place on Halloween. How fitting would that be to kick off the end?

The patterns Ive heard mentioned are that the Nickleheads show up every 5 books, Vampires feature every 3, and that elaine was supposed to show every 5 books after the fourth (ie 4, 9, 14, etc, but Cold days broke that pattern so it doesnt seem to fit anymore).

There is also technically the whole Tarot theory, but Jim claims he has way too much to keep track of to worry about that level of abstraction, and that its an instance of people reading into things after the fact the way english teachers love to do.

[Cenphx]

What about the scene where the woman's hand Harry felt in SF which seemed to help turn him from dark magic outside Victor Sells' house? I know that there are different theories as to who that was, but given that Harry's mother was a possibility, do you want to include it and similar scenes?

[Second Aristh]

Here is what I have so far for SmF.  I left out some of the ones that seemed to pertain purely to SmF, but if needed I can add them in later.  I tried to pay particular attention to things that faeries said because of their truth restriction.

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Cliffnotes Version: 

• Mab shows Harry how Marcone got abducted.

• She tilted her head to one side and stared at me.  “One day, wizard, you will kneel at my feet and ask me to bestow the mantle upon you.”
  “But not today.”
  “No,” Mab said.  “Today you repay me a favor.  Just as I said you would.”

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“Have you not seen the signs around you?”  Nicodemus asked.  “Beings acting against their natures?  Creatures behaving in ways that they should not?  The old conventions and customs being cast aside?”
I narrowed my eyes at him.  “You’re talking about the Black Council.”
He tilted his head slightly to one side.  Then his mouth twitched at a corner and he nodded his head very slightly.  “They move in shadows, manipulate puppets.  Some of them may be on your Council, yes.  As good a name as any.”

…(Harry reveals the hellfire at the attack on Arctis Tor)…

I turned to face him and sighed.  “I think you’re probably full of crap.  But okay, I’ll bite.  What long term issues?”
“Those surrounding the activities of your Black Council,” Nicodemus said.  “Are you certain you saw evidence of Hellfire in use at the site of the attack on Arctis Tor?”

…

..."Interesting.  Then the only question is if the contamination is among standing members of our Order or..."  He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow.
I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins.  "Someone in the Church," I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.

...

“Would you believe me if I told you that you and I might have a great many common interests in the future?”

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“Why,” I asked him.  “Why would Summer want Marcone taken by the Denarians?  Why would Summer want the Archive under their control?”
The gruff only stared at me for a long moment, but when he spoke I could have sworn that his voice sounded pensive.  Maybe even troubled.  “It is not my place to know such things—or to ask.”

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“Tessa and Rosanna,” I said quietly.  “They got their collection of thugs back.  They bailed at just the right moment to ruin your plans, too.”
“Deceitful bitches,” Nicodemus murmured.  “One of them is our own Judas; I was sure of it.”
I lifted my eyebrows.  “What?”
“That’s why I let them handle the more, shall we say, memorable aspects of the Archive’s initiation to our world,” Nicodemus said.  “I suppose now that the child is free, she’ll have some rather unpleasant associations with those two.”
“And you’re telling me this why?”
He shrugged a shoulder.  “It’s somewhat ironic, Dresden, that I can talk to you about this particular aspect of family business.  You’re the only one that I’m sure hasn’t gone over to this new force—this Black Council of yours.”

…(Nicodemus tells the Shadow to restrain Harry)…

“Dresden, I truly regret this necessity, but time is growing short.  I must act, and your talents could prove useful.  You’ll see.  Once we’ve cleared some of these well-intentioned idiots out of our way…”

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“You gotta think that maybe there’s a matter of balance, here,” he said.  “Maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly and immediately.  Maybe another one was just quieter about it.  Thinking long-term.  Maybe he already gave you a hand.”

…

Mab’s head moved slightly with the words, but it was Grimalkin’s mewling voice that actually spoke.  “The Prince of the Host is all pomp and ceremony, and when he moves it is with the thunder of the wings of an army of seraphim, the crash of drums, and the clamor of horns.  The Trumpeter never walks quietly when he can appear in a chorus of light.  The Demon Binder takes tasks upon his own shoulders and solves his problems with his own hands.  But the Watchman…” Mab smiled.  “Of all the archangels, I like him the most.  He is the quiet one.  The subtle one.  The one least known.  And by far the most dangerous.”

…

“Why?” I demanded.  “Why did you want the Denarians stopped?  Why send the hobs to kill the Archive?  Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?”
Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me.  “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition.  That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted.  And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”
“The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor,” I said.  “One of them used Hellfire.”
“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth.  “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day.  The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he’d been a stuffed practice dummy.  “Thorned Namshiel.”
Mab’s eyes flashed with sudden, cold fury and frost literally formed over every surface of the chapel, including upon my own eyelashes.

…
Date with Luccio

“The Sight,” she replied calmly.  “Every wizard develops some measure of precognizance as he matures.  It sounds to me as if yours has begun to stir, and has recognized a place that may be of significance to you in the future.”

Edited to more closely match formatting and condense everything into a book tag for easy cut and paste.

[Cenphx]

@Second Aristh--your earlier post made me want to read the scene from SmF again. There's one line you left out which seems like its foreshadowing the next book and might be referencing nemesis. After Nicodemus asks Harry if he is sure Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor, Nic starts this exchange: " 'Interesting. Then the only question is if the contamination is among the standing members of our Order or...' He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow. I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins. 'Someone in the church,' I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.". Then Nic taunts Harry that they may shortly be on the same side...

[Silkki]

(click to show/hide)

"-- but I’m just as vulnerable as everybody else.”
"I frowned at that thought. As vulnerable as everybody else. Something nagged at me from beneath the surface of my conscious calculations, but I couldn’t poke it into visibility. Yet."

I think this makes a nice pairing with Nic in DB.

"You don't want to see what you are,--  You are lying to yourself.  You pretend to be like any other mortal because you are too terrified to admit that you aren't."

I know this is not place for discussion, but if you want to link those two together, feel free : )

[Elegast]

“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth.  “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day.  The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”

What a quote!

May I redirect this conversation toward this thread? 

[Second Aristh]

@Second Aristh--your earlier post made me want to read the scene from SmF again. There's one line you left out which seems like its foreshadowing the next book and might be referencing nemesis. After Nicodemus asks Harry if he is sure Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor, Nic starts this exchange: " 'Interesting. Then the only question is if the contamination is among the standing members of our Order or...' He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow. I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins. 'Someone in the church,' I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.". Then Nic taunts Harry that they may shortly be on the same side...

Added

[Elegast]

Here is a post I made last year that covers very similar things to yours.


So through the course of the series, during the narrative, Harry has mentioned (insert rediculiously stupid thing to do "A"), and later in the series he inevitably ends up doing "A" or some derivative thereof. 

I thought I'd like to make a list of these "Premonitions" that have happened through the course of the story, and try to come up with another list of potential things that might be premonitions of things that will happen later. 


Fufilled premonitions

• SF: Santa is a pretty powerful fae, summoning him and trapping him in a circle would take some pretty big brass ones*
      DB: Harry summons the Erlking, the Summer counterpart to Winter's Santa, and traps him in a circle
• GP:  (Susan, when Harry had trouble saying "I love you") "I'm going to get you to start talking if it kills you."
      GP:  Harry brings Susan back from Half Rampire bloodlust and brakes Lea's memory stealing spell by saying "I love you" and within minutes dies and has to be necessitated by Susan.
• GP: "So would killing every vampire on the planet. What's your point?"
      Changes: Well, you know
• SK: Harry sees Ebenezer enter White Council politics to save his former apprentice's neck and thinks it's a bad move on Eb's part
      PG: Harry enters into the White Council political fray to save his future apprentice's neck
• SK: Harry turns down Maeve's offer to pay for information by sleeping with Jenny Greenteeth because (amongst other reasons) he'd never be OK with leaving the child that would result with monsters/fae and for others to raise. 
      DM & Changes:  Harry has a child that ends up being raised by someone else without his knowledge, and it gets taken by monsters
• SK: Mab offers Harry a job as Winter Knight
      Changes: Harry becomes the WK
• PG: "You mean I'd have to die?"
      Changes: Well, you know

Potential Premonitions

• DM: Nichodemus offers Harry a position as a Denarian
• WK: "Who knows, you might make me into a saint.  Or as close to one as I could get, anyway."
• WK: "Defeat the whole damn White Court now.  Worry about taking on Hell later."
• SmF: "Even assuming I was stupid enough to go anywhere with you for an hour, much less a week, I saw how you treated Cassius.  I'm not real eager to slide my nameplate onto his office door"
• Changes:  On what people value in a home:  "I'd rather have my extra meaning come from an ancient burial ground under the swimming pool or from knowing that I built it with my own hands or something." (Ch. 24)
• Changes: "I'd have to kill a lot of people outright, if I wanted to use the Darkhallow."

Premonitions involving other characters
SmF:  Harry:  “Yeah. You’re a saint.”
“One day,” Nicodemus said. “One day.”

[Serack]

Man, I thought I had saved the original version of that in the DFRC.

Especially since it's one of the posts saved on my hard drive.

[Serack]

Bump, apparently I let this fall off the back of my todo pile.