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Is Cowl Simon Petrovich?

YES
NO

Author Topic: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread  (Read 69029 times)

Offline Elegast

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2012, 12:45:46 PM »
Here's some relevant quotes:

And here's this, because we're talking gloves:

---

On another note, why Goethe?  Two things come to mind:  Goethe penned Der Erlkönig as well as a celebrated version of Faust.  I've always thought that this was a hint that Cowl made a Faustian bargain.

That's one of my pet theories, but I've never explicitly stated it:

I believe Cowl is based on Darth Vader.  :)

We know that Jim is a HUGE SW fan, that he likes to take ideas from other artists, and Vader is probably the best idea of the whole SW universe.

Vader-Cowl:
  • dress in black, and wear black gloves
  • do not show their faces
  • have sustained heavy injuries, including burns
  • have an artificial voice
  • are badass/nearly unkillable (surviving Darkhallow/ explosion of first Death Star)
  • have a secret identity

So I like your idea that Goethe is reference to Faust, as I believe that Cowl, like Vader is good guy who made a pact with the Bad Guy.
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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2012, 01:01:32 PM »
yea jims a total SW geek, nothing wrong with that.. but it practically became modern mythology. how can you create an epic without referencing the classics?
really though nothing on my 'simon cowl' joke? not even lol?

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »
That's one of my pet theories, but I've never explicitly stated it:

I believe Cowl is based on Darth Vader.  :)

We know that Jim is a HUGE SW fan, that he likes to take ideas from other artists, and Vader is probably the best idea of the whole SW universe.

Vader-Cowl:
  • dress in black, and wear black gloves
  • do not show their faces
  • have sustained heavy injuries, including burns
  • have an artificial voice
  • are badass/nearly unkillable (surviving Darkhallow/ explosion of first Death Star)
  • have a secret identity

So I like your idea that Goethe is reference to Faust, as I believe that Cowl, like Vader is good guy who made a pact with the Bad Guy.

One thought on that is that he's not vader, hes hobgoblin. Jim is an old school spider man fan, Harry is based in part on spider man ( magic geek instead of science geek) and for about ten years Spidey had an enemy who was very..mysterious. there were lots of red herrings, lots of random clues, and many suspects.

it later turned out to be  a minor charchter, only mentioned in a few issues, that no one geussed. and the writer planned it that way all along.
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


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Offline SunlessNick

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2012, 04:19:28 PM »
Possible, but quite unlikely. Jim himself has said he does his best to foreshadow things, and having Cowl is TAN DAN TAAA *insert name* moment is one of those things that seem likely to happen.

Having "Cowl removed his hood and he was... generic WC member number 199 i'd seen once in a meeting but had never even mentioned on page" just doesn't cut it.
Neither does Petrovich, in that sense.  To reiterate something I've said before:  It tells us the Council was heavily infiltrated, but we knew that; it tells us there's sinisterness in Harry's line of mentorship, but we knew that too, twice over; it implies that whatever agenda is going on with Harry is a bit bigger than just DuMorne's plans, but we knew that too, the only thing Petrovich would add is to potenitally push the time frame back a little.

If the revelation of Cowl's identity is to be a big deal, then I can't see it just filling in the blanks of the past, not being something with implications for the future.

My own theory inasmuch as I have one, is that Cowl is a previous user/victim/ally of a force with which Harry will have to contend, or of which he will have to make use.  A former holder of the Blackstaff, for example, illustrating the risk that comes from it; or another Starborn, illustrating the price of failure or success for Harry.  Or has made a deal with some being Harry will have to make a deal with.

I prefer arguments that can be made in setting, though, and the big one of those for me is that unless Cowl is close to a solo operator, which does not seem to be the case, a place on the Senior Council is too valuable an asset for his faction to give up.

A fomor?

How did he summon an Outsider? (no proof but probable)
How did he know about Bob?
Why is a fan of Goethe?
Why does he uses 'Dorosh' as keyword for his magic?
Who was the traitor in Archangel?
Why Harry says he's human?
Why Lea accepted a gift from an enemy?
Is "Dorosh" a Russian word?  If so, it argues against Petrovch, not for, because wizards have to use words not from their own language.  (Googling it, I've found Russian and Hebrew connections for it).

The others, in order:

Fomor are like fae, yes? In which case, they can produce scions who would presumably face a Choice like changelings do.  Cowl is infected, which we know allows action against a being's nature - by extension, a changeling ought to be able to choose "both" or "both, but one at a time."  That would allow him to do human-only stuff, or seem human.

Can't answer about Bob, but Petrovich would only know if Justin told him - and that is only likely if Petrovich was running Justin, in which case how likely is it that Petrovich would not have taken Bob years ago?

Why not a fan of Goethe?  Do we know Petrovich was a fan of Goethe?

Could still be Petrovich.  Petrovich=Cowl and Petrovich=bad guy on the Black Council or whatever it really is are not synomymous assertions.  Otherwise, could be anyone.

If Cowl had chosen human, Lea might not be able to peg him as a Fomor-scion.


I will say, though, that your OP is the only post I've seen arguing for Petrovich=Cowl that makes it sound even halfway plausible to me.

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2012, 05:11:23 PM »
give me some time and ill come up with one of those ducksims theories for cowl= formor. ill ahve to dig up my lovecraft, since its largely based on that.
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


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Offline Elegast

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2012, 05:26:00 PM »
Neither does Petrovich, in that sense.  To reiterate something I've said before:  It tells us the Council was heavily infiltrated, but we knew that; it tells us there's sinisterness in Harry's line of mentorship, but we knew that too, twice over; it implies that whatever agenda is going on with Harry is a bit bigger than just DuMorne's plans, but we knew that too, the only thing Petrovich would add is to potenitally push the time frame back a little.

If the revelation of Cowl's identity is to be a big deal, then I can't see it just filling in the blanks of the past, not being something with implications for the future.

My own theory inasmuch as I have one, is that Cowl is a previous user/victim/ally of a force with which Harry will have to contend, or of which he will have to make use.  A former holder of the Blackstaff, for example, illustrating the risk that comes from it; or another Starborn, illustrating the price of failure or success for Harry.  Or has made a deal with some being Harry will have to make a deal with.

I prefer arguments that can be made in setting, though, and the big one of those for me is that unless Cowl is close to a solo operator, which does not seem to be the case, a place on the Senior Council is too valuable an asset for his faction to give up.
Is "Dorosh" a Russian word?  If so, it argues against Petrovch, not for, because wizards have to use words not from their own language.  (Googling it, I've found Russian and Hebrew connections for it).

The others, in order:

Fomor are like fae, yes? In which case, they can produce scions who would presumably face a Choice like changelings do.  Cowl is infected, which we know allows action against a being's nature - by extension, a changeling ought to be able to choose "both" or "both, but one at a time."  That would allow him to do human-only stuff, or seem human.

Can't answer about Bob, but Petrovich would only know if Justin told him - and that is only likely if Petrovich was running Justin, in which case how likely is it that Petrovich would not have taken Bob years ago?

Why not a fan of Goethe?  Do we know Petrovich was a fan of Goethe?

Could still be Petrovich.  Petrovich=Cowl and Petrovich=bad guy on the Black Council or whatever it really is are not synomymous assertions.  Otherwise, could be anyone.

If Cowl had chosen human, Lea might not be able to peg him as a Fomor-scion.


I will say, though, that your OP is the only post I've seen arguing for Petrovich=Cowl that makes it sound even halfway plausible to me.

I'm almost certain Cowl is human. Harry says so in Dead Beat, and I don't think Jim would mislead us so much.
And his magic seems human: necromancy and Outsider magic seem to be mortal specialities.
That being said, he could be a fomor scion.

Concerning Simon: he left the WC as he intended to destroy it in a few years anyway, and couldn't run the Circle if he had to lead a war for WC at the same time (he was the vampire expert).

"Dorosh" is russian-like, but it's not a russian word. The same way Harry uses "Flickum Bicus", it's a fake word.

Concerning Bob: Simon may have not known about Bob being Justin's, and only learned in PG.

Goethe: we don't know for Simon, but the dates would fit.


« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 05:39:23 PM by Elegast »
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Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2012, 06:29:53 PM »
It's about time somebody got off their behind and made this thread  ;D (though I do wish I had completed my revised list). Sorry for replying this late, procrastination is my worst enemy  :-[.

Anyways, I've noticed that quite a lot of (circumstantial) evidence from previous threads/my list are missing. I'll post the good ones here after I finish my revised list.

Also:

Quote
as I believe that Cowl, like Vader is good guy who made a pact with the Bad Guy.

I believe this too. It also meshes really nicely if Cowl is Simon since we know that Simon was a trusted friend of Eb. It would give the Circle/BC a lot more depth too.

EDIT: the reason Petrovich didn't take Bob is simply because Harry took it first. Since Lea is protecting Harry (and I would expect a SC member to know about it) he stayed away (plus he was probably busy with lots of other stuff). He could have also tried to steal it and failed (if he didn't know about Lea) and stayed away after that.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 06:33:23 PM by 123456789blaaa »
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Offline Sydna

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2012, 07:20:42 PM »
yea jims a total SW geek, nothing wrong with that.. but it practically became modern mythology. how can you create an epic without referencing the classics?
really though nothing on my 'simon cowl' joke? not even lol?

Sorry, that joke has been floating around the bb for years. It was funny the first time.
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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2012, 09:50:33 PM »
Sorry, that joke has been floating around the bb for years. It was funny the first time.
darn an i thought i was being original
great minds think alike  8)
seriously though, has anyone considered rashid? he's a frickin giant just like harry.

Offline Elegast

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2012, 09:55:51 PM »
seriously though, has anyone considered rashid? he's a frickin giant just like harry.

Yes, and it doesn't work:

Rashid was in the NN fighting outsider when Cowl was in Chicago, Cowl is smaller than Rashid, Rashid does not use Dorosh as a keyword, Rashid had already seen Harry for himself, Rashid is a badass who would have successfully completed the Darkhallow (;)).
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 12:44:13 PM by Elegast »
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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2012, 10:00:28 PM »
whats the significance of dorash? i know cowl uses it, can't remember what for atm...

Offline Vondrakenhof

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2012, 10:46:22 PM »
I like the idea of this. It'd be a massive blow to several on the SC if it turned out to be Simon, leaving Harry to deal with him. I think it'd be really cool to see Eb, LTW and Martha Liberty seize up because they realise their old friend had been playing them, with Harry wondering how he's going to take on someone who survived being clocked in the head during the Darkhallow ritual.

On the note of various X=Y theories, are there any threads for Harry = Future Gatekeeper (Taking over once Rashid packs it in). It seems as if he's being groomed for the roll.
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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2012, 10:52:00 PM »
I like the idea of this. It'd be a massive blow to several on the SC if it turned out to be Simon, leaving Harry to deal with him. I think it'd be really cool to see Eb, LTW and Martha Liberty seize up because they realise their old friend had been playing them, with Harry wondering how he's going to take on someone who survived being clocked in the head during the Darkhallow ritual.

On the note of various X=Y theories, are there any threads for Harry = Future Gatekeeper (Taking over once Rashid packs it in). It seems as if he's being groomed for the roll.
yea i thought this too. but idk harry aint observant enough to gatekeep.
the biggest support for 'simon cowl' is the woj's about simons death curse and the other about death curses could be synthesised.
i still don't quite agree with it but i don't have any better theories atm.

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2012, 02:30:38 AM »
i just remembered a woj about mouse, he says all the puppies weren't accounted for and another is out there, anyone else think cowl has evil mouse? twisted with mind magic maybe.
it would be kinda cool, i don't go for dog violence in RL (i love my pit:) ) but i wanna see mouse go mono a' mono with his bro, an equal. plus whats the point of throwing that out there if he didn't end up in the wrong hands?

Offline Phariah

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Re: [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2012, 01:18:12 PM »
i really doubt Simon = Cowl. it would be such a let down if it was so easy.

as to him saying he hates Kemmler. it doesn't matter because if he was an evil apprentice of a an evil master mind it goes w/ the evil hat. it usually is a love / hate relationship. he just didn't want to be associated w/ Kemmler because he didn't like how he carried out his plans? his teaching methods? whatever. he does however associate w/ CT and Grevane. he is planning with them while preparing to fight them for the Darkhallow. and they know him. fits with him being an apprentice of Kemmler while hating the guy.

as to being a SC level wizard. just because he is that powerful does not mean he is in the SC. CT and Grevane are considered just as powerful as Cowl. so does that make them SC members?

so what Simon has a female apprentice so does Harry. it has no weight to the theory.
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