Cold Days Spoilers- Who isn't your Nemesis?

[sjsharks]

I think so.  Someone with better knowledge of the WOJ (Serack/CuriousFan) would know better but iirc to be starborn you had to be a wizard/witch and be born at a certain time of year and in a specific year.  Harry and Elaine both fit into these qualifications. 

As for it granting immunity, I believe it does otherwise Harry would've been infected when he was 16 and if Justin was infected he wouldn't have needed to enthrall them, just infect them.  Also the Outsiders that Harry has met have attempted to recruit him, not kidnap and infect him.  That being said I do believe that Elaine may be working for the other side.  If they attempted to recruit Harry logically they would try to recruit her as well.  Also the amount of trust that both the Gatekeeper and Mab place in Harry allows them to be fairly positive in his allegiance and from before they really knew him as well. 

Others who are definitely not infected: Mother Summer and Winter, same reasoning as Mab and Gatekeeper, if they were infected they would have enough power to destroy the gate.  Also Titania, for similar reasons as if she were infected she would have full blown attacked Winter and at the very least weakened Mab giving the Outsiders their opportunity to break through the gates. 

Angels, Archangels and God aren't because of the above reasons.  Sanya for being a KotC.  Drakkul, Ferro, and Odin.  Really anyone with a payscale big enough to go head to head with Mab and be an actual threat to her. 

I would definitely not put Thomas, Lara, or Justine on this list though.  They have all spent a good amount of time near Papa Raith (at least through proxy of Lara) who has a very good chance to be at least somewhat connected to the Outsiders.

Here you go
Q:  Is Elaine another candidate to wield power over Outsiders (the way Harry supposedly is)?
A:  Yes.  There’s a reason Justin picked the two of them.


I think you are underestimating the brainy ness of the Outsiders. There is a very good chance that they have more cards then they are showing, and are trying not to blow all of their secrets at once.

Lara and Justine are not infected yet, Maeve was very excited to get the chance to infect Justine so that she could have someone close to Lara.

The thing with this is that if they were infected they would be able to end the war in a second.  If any of the Archangels or God were infected they would just go smash the Outer Gates.  As for lesser Angels, God and the Archangels would be able to sense it in them and heal them of it instantly.

We don't know whether they could sense it though.

[Aluman]

I am willing to add Mab and DR to the list, but not Rashid. I mean, come on. Nemesis is getting through.

Actually it got through once and is infecting from its original source (whomever the Athame belonged to originally probably), Rashid on their team would be disastrous, as he controls the gates.

Lara, Justine, Lea, and Molly. other then that we can't be sure.

Actually, Lea on that group is the only one that is assured, and her by virtue of having been infected once.

[Cander]

Thomas

and I also I hear your case for Rashid, but I don't buy it. Rashid is not infected.

I also don't think Fix is.

Also question: Can normal humans be infected? Murphy, Butters? Marcone?

[sjsharks]

Actually it got through once and is infecting from its original source (whomever the Athame belonged to originally probably), Rashid on their team would be disastrous, as he controls the gates.Actually, Lea on that group is the only one that is assured, and her by virtue of having been infected once.

Lara and Justine both have textual evidence supporting them

Thomas

and I also I hear your case for Rashid, but I don't buy it. Rashid is not infected.

I also don't think Fix is.

Also question: Can normal humans be infected? Murphy, Butters? Marcone?

I don't think Rashid is infected either, I am just saying that he is more of a possibility then some other people

[Cander]

Also, what about Bob? Is it even possible?

[Serack]

Thomas by the same reasoning as Justine.  He could get to Lara just as easily.

Actually we can expand this to encompas pretty much anyone in lara's inner circle.

[Serack]

SJS, do you mind if I tinker with some bulleting on your list?  (or I'll edit in a suggestion here in a few min and you can decide to incorporate it into your OP)

[sjsharks]

SJS, do you mind if I tinker with some bulleting on your list?  (or I'll edit in a suggestion here in a few min and you can decide to incorporate it into your OP)

be my guest

[Clenzor]

We don't know whether they could sense it though.

Mab could sense it in her Daughter and both of them are much much much younger than God and His Angels.  God would be able to sense it in His sons and daughters, and Uriel/other Archangels would be able to sense it in his/her siblings.  Hell Harry noticed it in Sith and he knew him for all of a month.  There is no way that God or the Archangels could be corrupted because as I said if they were the war would be over, and because they cannot be infected neither can the lower ranking angels. 

As for vanillas I am absolutely certain that they could.  If not Rashid or Mother Summer would have told him that he could trust them. I also think that Murphy's behavior was very suspect in Cold Days.

[Aluman]

Lara and Justine both have textual evidence supporting them

No they have textual evidence from a known infected agent implying (but not out right saying) that they are not infected.
If Nemesis completely replaces your will with its; Maeve hints that Justine or Lara are not infected when one or the other is, because there is a chance that Harry and Co are successful and it doesn't want to lose a more a highly placed foe.

If Nemesis doesn't replace your will with its; Maeve wants to interogate Justine for the exact reason she lays out.

I don't think Rashid is infected either, I am just saying that he is more of a possibility then some other people

He really isn't.  If Rashid is infected, the war is over.  Its why him, DR, and Mab are the only ones I will say with 99.99% certainty are not infected.  The end result of their infection is loss of reality, since reality exists they can't be infected.

[Cenphx]

Not to keep screaming my own theory every time someone says something related, but....i think Harry is infected, has been since he was 16. We have no evidence, that I can think of, to define outsiderbane. It could as easily mean the person who defeats the outsiders as much as it could mean immunity to them.     So I think, for the reasons already stated, Mab, Rashid, Uriel, Odin are not infected because too powerful. Infected would be the end of the story. The logic against Lara being infected makes sense. Other than that..'Everyone's a suspect.'

[Aluman]

Mab could sense it in her Daughter and both of them are much much much younger than God and His Angels.  God would be able to sense it in His sons and daughters, and Uriel/other Archangels would be able to sense it in his/her siblings.  Hell Harry noticed it in Sith and he knew him for all of a month.  There is no way that God or the Archangels could be corrupted because as I said if they were the war would be over, and because they cannot be infected neither can the lower ranking angels. 

Harry realizing it in Sith is more Harry is an investigator, and so can put pieces together, than him Sensing it in Sith.  I think its safe to say the Archangels and WG are not infected for the same reason one can presume that Mab, Rashid, and DR are not.

As for vanillas I am absolutely certain that they could.  If not Rashid or Mother Summer would have told him that he could trust them. I also think that Murphy's behavior was very suspect in Cold Days.

Murphy...I could see, but this is more Who isn't, than Who Might Be.  The reality is the Nemesis is much more insidious by making Everyone suspect.

[Aluman]

Not to keep screaming my own theory every time someone says something related, but....i think Harry is infected, has been since he was 16. We have no evidence, that I can think of, to define outsiderbane. It could as easily mean the person who defeats the outsiders as much as it could mean immunity to them.     So I think, for the reasons already stated, Mab, Rashid, Uriel, Odin are not infected because too powerful. Infected would be the end of the story. The logic against Lara being infected makes sense. Other than that..'Everyone's a suspect.'

I think its hard to accept Harry is infected due to the fact that he stalls or outright stops the plans of the infected too often.  While I am not sold on the White King being infected, he stopped Aurora and we know she was infected.  We have strong evidence that the first Fivish books were all infected enemies, and Harry killed them all.

[Cenphx]

For me, the question isn't whether tWG *could* sense the infection in someone, but whether he/she would intervene even if tWG had the knowledge. I think the answer is no. Now archangels...they seem freer to nudge events, but outright curing someone of infection? I think that is too direct an intervention against events occurring as a result of free will. I dont think they would be curing anyone either. Yes, reality may end eventually as a result, but I dont think that changes anything

[sjsharks]

Mab could sense it in her Daughter and both of them are much much much younger than God and His Angels.  God would be able to sense it in His sons and daughters, and Uriel/other Archangels would be able to sense it in his/her siblings.  Hell Harry noticed it in Sith and he knew him for all of a month.  There is no way that God or the Archangels could be corrupted because as I said if they were the war would be over, and because they cannot be infected neither can the lower ranking angels. 

As for vanillas I am absolutely certain that they could.  If not Rashid or Mother Summer would have told him that he could trust them. I also think that Murphy's behavior was very suspect in Cold Days.

Harry noticed it in Sith because he was directly breaking his word and his bonds, and the Sidhe just don't do that.

Even if TWG and Archangles could detect it, they can't act to do anything about it. Other then placing a very smart wizard close enough to find out and help cure the person 

No they have textual evidence from a known infected agent implying (but not out right saying) that they are not infected.
If Nemesis completely replaces your will with its; Maeve hints that Justine or Lara are not infected when one or the other is, because there is a chance that Harry and Co are successful and it doesn't want to lose a more a highly placed foe.

If Nemesis doesn't replace your will with its; Maeve wants to interogate Justine for the exact reason she lays out.He really isn't.  If Rashid is infected, the war is over.  Its why him, DR, and Mab are the only ones I will say with 99.99% certainty are not infected.  The end result of their infection is loss of reality, since reality exists they can't be infected.

Justine and Lara still have some form of proof they are infected, even if it isn't the most trust worthy source.

I will add Rashid to the list

I think its hard to accept Harry is infected due to the fact that he stalls or outright stops the plans of the infected too often.  While I am not sold on the White King being infected, he stopped Aurora and we know she was infected.  We have strong evidence that the first Fivish books were all infected enemies, and Harry killed them all.

When did the White King stop Aurora? Also, he works with the Outsiders directly and has them blocking him from magic