Comments thread for "The Laws of Magic: Part 1 of 8"

[iago]

Article here:
http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/news/archives/2007/06/the_laws_of_mag.php

Comment away!

[SQuigley316]

Me likey.

Quick question though, which may answer itself as this is only part 1 of 8 but what can I say I am not a patient person.  Is it going to be explained beside taking the negative traits that go with breaking one of the Laws, how, how quickily, or if at all a Warden would be notifed of your action and be on your trail or is that going to be left up to the Game Master?

[iago]

Me likey.

Quick question though, which may answer itself as this is only part 1 of 8 but what can I say I am not a patient person.  Is it going to be explained beside taking the negative traits that go with breaking one of the Laws, how, how quickily, or if at all a Warden would be notifed of your action and be on your trail or is that going to be left up to the Game Master?

That will depend strongly on the game you're running, but when I post up the First Law, you'll see how we talk about the issues in play that arise from breaking each one.

[SQuigley316]

That will depend strongly on the game you're running, but when I post up the First Law, you'll see how we talk about the issues in play that arise from breaking each one.

NICE!

Keep it up, Mr. Iago Sir I can't wait to read the next update and eagerly await the finished product.  Thank you.

[Jaroslav]

Could you please be a bit more generic in the examples. To many of them are from the books. Which while not bad in itself, could easily scare off those not familure with the Dresdenverse.

[iago]

Could you please be a bit more generic in the examples. To many of them are from the books. Which while not bad in itself, could easily scare off those not familure with the Dresdenverse.

Unfortunately, this tends to translate as "Could you please be more boring with the examples".  This is the Dresden Files RPG.  Evoking something that's true to the books is a first priority.  We do enough handholding elsewhere in the book to ease  folks into things if they're not familiar; by the time they get to the Laws section, they're going to be pretty deep into things.

Specifics are good.  Generic is bad.

[Kiriath]

Woot, some actual information about the Unseelie Accords!

It sounds like the 'tempt' mechanics (Dark Side points ) actually can... tempt. They don't create an instant bad guy, which is appropriate for the Dresden setting and all, and actually have uses. The suggestions for possible games rock, too.

It seems cool to me and the tone rocks. It's a good read.

[Douglas]

The Refresh mechanic seems to be really interesting, I'd like to know more about how that works.

I suppose that once you've picked up Lawbreaker Stunts it's extremely hard to get rid of them.  Given the ambiguity on what could corrupt you this can be extremely risky for a character to even think about say, tossing combat spells around even against things that you don't think qualify.

Fortunately I don't really go in for battle magic.

[iago]

The Refresh mechanic seems to be really interesting, I'd like to know more about how that works.

Are you familiar with Spirit of the Century, or not?  It'll help with the explaining.

I suppose that once you've picked up Lawbreaker Stunts it's extremely hard to get rid of them.  Given the ambiguity on what could corrupt you this can be extremely risky for a character to even think about say, tossing combat spells around even against things that you don't think qualify.

That's very much the case!  It's enough to make someone think that bringing a handgun to a fight is a better option.  Hmmmm.

Fortunately I don't really go in for battle magic.

Heh.  There are a ton of non-battle ways to break the Laws too, as folks will see in the coming weeks.

[Douglas]

Yeah, because Ballistic forensics is a fun thing to have pointed your way. 

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Spirit of the Century, though I have looked at some of the information available online about.  I saw the Refresh stat on some of the characters shown in the material on the Evil Hat website, but have no real notion how it works.

[iago]

Yeah, because Ballistic forensics is a fun thing to have pointed your way. 

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Spirit of the Century, though I have looked at some of the information available online about.  I saw the Refresh stat on some of the characters shown in the material on the Evil Hat website, but have no real notion how it works.

It basically operates as your character's "story fuel" -- sort of like Willpower in a White Wolf game, but more pervasive, and with interesting ways you can behave to get some of it back.  In the Dresden Files RPG, it's also an indicator of how much free will you have... for reasons that resonate with the game mechanics that are hard to explain without giving you more of the game (Sprit of the Century uses Refresh, but not in a "you use it to pay for powers" sort of way -- still, knowing that game will give you a solid grounding in a lot of what we're trying to do with the DFRPG.)

[hollow49]

Perhaps this question will be answered in one of the later parts - if so, apologies for jumping the gun.

Suppose you have a lawbreaker character. He gets a bonus on any actions that would, if successful, break that law again. What about the grey areas? Does the bonus only apply if it would count as breaking the law again? If so, can he choose to make it into a law-breaking case to get the bonus?

E.g. if you have a character who killed (a human) with magic, in a magic duel with a vampire. The vampire is aware but not human, and is deemed a monster by the White Council, so let's assume that it wouldn't count as a violation of the Laws to incinerate it with fire magic. The character needs every bonus he can get - can he deliberately draw on his darker side to make the situation into a law-breaking one to get that extra bonus, accelerating his spiral into darkness but winning the duel and saving his life?

[iago]

Suppose you have a lawbreaker character. He gets a bonus on any actions that would, if successful, break that law again. What about the grey areas? Does the bonus only apply if it would count as breaking the law again? If so, can he choose to make it into a law-breaking case to get the bonus?

I'd allow it; since grey areas are as much about intention as anything, if the character is breaking the law in his mind, then it sounds like a broken law to me as far as how it affects him.  That said...

E.g. if you have a character who killed (a human) with magic, in a magic duel with a vampire. The vampire is aware but not human, and is deemed a monster by the White Council, so let's assume that it wouldn't count as a violation of the Laws to incinerate it with fire magic. The character needs every bonus he can get - can he deliberately draw on his darker side to make the situation into a law-breaking one to get that extra bonus, accelerating his spiral into darkness but winning the duel and saving his life?

... I'm gonna take issue with your example.  If you're melting a Black Court vampire, that's not really a violation of the Laws: it's pretty clear they're a monster.  So I wouldn't call that a grey area.

But in the end, it's gonna be on the shoulders of you and your GM to define when it happens.

Good question.  Thanks!

[hollow49]

The example was based off the scene in Grave Peril where Harry has just eaten the Nightmare's power, and uses that power to obliterate the red vampire who jumps at him (can't remember her name - one of the twins from that book) only to feel sick afterwards at the realisation that he's used his magic, which comes from his own soul, in such a violently destructive fashion. I agree that it's not something that would ordinarily be a grey area - what I'm asking is can a player take such a situation and draw on the perversion of his own magics in such a way as to get the bonus, at the cost of the usual penalty, turning something that is normally OK into something questionable, perhaps in the way he does it? Deliberately use his magics in a way that twists them even when it isn't necessary, in other words.

[iago]

The example was based off the scene in Grave Peril where Harry has just eaten the Nightmare's power, and uses that power to obliterate the red vampire who jumps at him (can't remember her name - one of the twins from that book) only to feel sick afterwards at the realisation that he's used his magic, which comes from his own soul, in such a violently destructive fashion. I agree that it's not something that would ordinarily be a grey area - what I'm asking is can a player take such a situation and draw on the perversion of his own magics in such a way as to get the bonus, at the cost of the usual penalty, turning something that is normally OK into something questionable, perhaps in the way he does it? Deliberately use his magics in a way that twists them even when it isn't necessary, in other words.

Sure!  I'd support that.  After all, it counts as a "tick" against how many times you've broken that particular law, which causes your aspects to slowly get replaced by darker things.  So there's a downside to "pay" for the upside.