Playing a true, Pure Fae

[Richard_Chilton]

Working out how to use Greater Glamours. Is playing a pure Fae possible. And if so what would be some balanced stats.

I was looking at the Catch +2 cold iron / inhuman recovery/toughness -2 to show the fae side or in lower powerd games use wizard constitution with the catch +1
Then use Aspects for the no lie. Any ideas or help or even if this has been posted before would help thanks.

Playing a Pure Fae is possible using house rules - as long as the table signs on to it.

The "no lies" bit would be an element of the high concept - just as speaking Russian was Toot-Toot part of his high concept. 

If you up the recovery/toughness over inhuman increasing the catch would be justified - iron is fairly common and well known.  Just as long as the catch is under the cost of the power (all recovery/toughness powers cost a minimum of 1).
Wizard's Constitution doesn't get a catch.

As for the type of Fae - pick something from folklore and try to recreate it.

Max out your Deceit  for Greater Glamor.  Sure you can use Discipline, but Deceit is very useful for a Fae.  If you're going to play one of the Shide then think of taking  "Deceives with the truth" (or something like that) as an Aspect.
Since Shide PCs can't lie, practice giving misleading answers.
Example:
Q) Did you kidnap Tom Bower?
A) Tom Bower is a great man and the world needs more men like him.  He's a loving father, a pillar of the community, and if he's in trouble then someone had better rescue him.  In fact, tell me where he is and I'll lead the rescue mission myself.

Notice that the question wasn't answered? The answer could be "No" or "Yeah, he's in the trunk of my car" and either could be true because nothing in the A) bit actually answered the question.

There will be times when your PC will be forced to give a truthful answer.  Even if he's not a Shide and can lie, when asked the third time all Fae have to give the correct answer.  When you're forced to tell the truth, remember to point out that you're being compelled and ask for a FATE chip.

And again, make sure that the table is on side before playing a True Fae.

Richard

[Richard_Chilton]

@Richard_Chilton: When you say Your World, do you mean Your Story or Our World? I'm guessing Your Story, from your last post.

Also, did you post a new thread to the Spoiler board? The "newest post" function of that board shows a new thread, but clicking it leads nowhere.

I can't believe I got the name of the book wrong.  Your Story.

As for the post, posts to the Spoiler Board seem to need to be verified.  I don't know why.

It's a post that has now been approved and touches on 4 - 5 topics from Jim Butcher's last interview that could apply to the game - especially with respect to Mouse.

Richard

[Sanctaphrax]

Sounds interesting, I hope it gets approved promptly.

On further thought...if I couldn't lie I'd get offended by direct questions. All direct questions, even stuff like "are you hungry?". That'd give me an excuse to get huffy and not answer questions about kidnappings and the like.

[Thrakkesh]

That'd actually be supported canonically as well--asking a direct question to a Fae is a form of verbal assault, really, and usually there's an underlying attempt to force information out of them.  That's why they're good at being vague in response in the first place. 

Also, remember technicalities!  "Did you kidnap Tom Baker?"

"No, I didn't." (I did however, plant the idea that a second party who happens to owe me a favor should kidnap Tom and hold him for ransom for another interested party and that it would be advantageous to him. I mean, I didn't TELL him to go Kidnap the guy, I just gave him an opportunity.  No siree, no abduction here.)

[Richard_Chilton]

Steven Brust had a great exchange in one his novels.  The "hero" was being questioned under a magical device that could detect lies. 

To quote:
I was asked things like, "When did you last see him alive?" and I'd say, "Oh, I don't know; he was always pretty dead," and they'd rebuke me sternly. They asked my opinion as to who killed him and I said that I believed he had killed himself. The Orb showed that I was telling the truth, and I was; messing with me the way he'd been doing was like asking to die.

Richard

[wolff96]

I used to have a player with a Scion of Morpheus as his character.  The character started with Glamours (drawing things from the dream world and projecting them). 

Later, after an adventure that gained his patron some significant advantages (some great RP and pursuing options I hadn't considered!), Morpheus granted him access to the raw stuff of dreams.

In-game, that meant that he could essentially reach into his own (or other people's dreams) and pull items, create real dreamscapes, and overlay reality to a limited extent.  That worked out as the Greater Glamors power.  It's not a particularly well-defined power, but it took remarkably few house rules to make it work.  It really worked out well at our table.  So that particular chunk of playing a True Fae wouldn't be all that difficult to arbitrate, as long as the DM thinks about it ahead of time and is prepared to house-rule the unclear areas.

[Ophidimancer]

Not being able to lie doesn't imply that you have to answer.  "I'm not going to answer that question" is perfectly truthful, after all.  Also, I've found that answering every question with another question drives players NUTS!

[Tedronai]

Not being able to lie doesn't imply that you have to answer.  "I'm not going to answer that question" is perfectly truthful, after all.  Also, I've found that answering every question with another question drives players NUTS!

I suspect that continuing the practice in daily life would quickly show that the principle is quite transferable beyond the set known as 'players'.

[Richard_Chilton]

Not being able to lie doesn't imply that you have to answer.  "I'm not going to answer that question" is perfectly truthful, after all.  Also, I've found that answering every question with another question drives players NUTS!

Alas, that doesn't work for the Fae, at least not if they ask three times:
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) Yes dammit I did.

Much better to go:
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) Tom's dead? What? But I was just talking to him the other day.  How did he die?
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) You moron! Tom was... We were close dammit! I need time to deal with this.  To process!
(leaves)

Richard

[Tedronai]

Alternatively, if the Fae is sufficiently powerful and capricious...
[Q]
I'm not going to answer that question.
[Q]
I'm not going to answer that question.
[Q]
*fatally wounds the asker*  Yes, I did, and then later, I killed you.  *asker dies*

[Mr. Death]

Alas, that doesn't work for the Fae, at least not if they ask three times:
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) Yes dammit I did.

No, the thing with the fae is that anything they say three times has to be true, in terms of promises made. It's not that if you ask them something three times, they have to answer. You're thinking of Mustafa from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me.

[amberpup]

I played a water wyldfae as I mentioned before, just using RAW for a few months. I had no problem with lying, since I was looking forward to the challenge of avoiding the truth without lying. My vodnik was considered odd by the rest of the characters, none too happy with his hobby of collecting human souls in porcelain cups. I didn't take iron as my weakness since my watery home was near the waste discharge of some steel mills. Which again, we used as a reason the Courts left me alone (mostly).

[Belial666]

"Did you kidnap Tom Baker?"

1) No, I didn't. (did not specify which Tom Baker. The fae answers about one of the Tom Bakers she has not kidnapped)
2) No, I didn't. (The fae used winter magic to summon a servitor that did the kidnapping for her)
3) No, I didn't. (The fae did not kidnap Tom Baker. She contrived a situation where Tom Baker would die - and then she saved him by sequestering him in a very secure little sanctuary.
4) No, I didn't. (The fae transformed Tom Baker into a dog. Then she kidnapped the dog.)
5) No, I didn't. (The fae mind-controlled Tom Baker to go with her willingly.)
6) No, I didn't. (The fae abducted Tom Baker. She's old enough to have learned English before the word "kidnap" was in use and chooses to use the older form of the language that did not contain the word.)
7) No, I didn't. (The fae abducted Tom Baker. By taking the literal, original meaning of the word kidnap, the question would not apply to Tom Baker because he isn't a kid.)
No, I didn't. (Legally, kidnapping is taking against one's will without legal authority. The fae, being a sidhe knight, does have her queen's authority to arrest a mortal if it would serve the purpose of Winter)
9) No, I didn't. (The fae cast a spell on herself that would temporarily suppress her memory of the kidnapping if someone asked her if she did it - so she could answer truthfully to her knowledge)

Fae can slip through a vague question, answer in the literal truth or the figurative truth if one of those can be misleading, answer in the partial truth, purposefully misunderstand the question itself, purposefully interpret the question to their favor, purposefully misunderstand the context or the situation the question applies to, or even change the meaning of the question/context/situation through their own action.

And all of the above can be done when speaking the direct truth without evasion or refusing to answer. Not the Fae's fault that language is so very flawed, limited and imprecise, is it?

[Ophidimancer]

Alas, that doesn't work for the Fae, at least not if they ask three times:
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) I'm not going to answer that question
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) Yes dammit I did.

Much better to go:
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) Tom's dead? What? But I was just talking to him the other day.  How did he die?
Q) Did you kill Tom Goodfellow?
A) You moron! Tom was... We were close dammit! I need time to deal with this.  To process!
(leaves)

Richard

So they have to answer the question if asked three times?  And yeah the second option is definitely tricksier, but I think there are all flavors of Fae.  The one I was trying for was the honorable Seelie Knight, kinda lawful neutral-ish, who knows the game but doesn't like trickery.

Is it possible for this kind of Fae to answer "I'm not going to answer that question and now I never will" because of saying it thrice?

[Mrmdubois]

You always have the option of never answering a question.  The weird thing is you could tell the straight truth every time and people would still want you to answer three times because of the reputation garnered by all the other fairies.  Although trust can be built up, Harry never bothers to ask Toot to say anything more than once anymore.