Joe Genero, tougher than you think?

[blackstaff67]

As a joke after out last session (involving active evocations in a crowded music festival), we discovered that Joe Genero (the typical human) is actually pretty tough.  Consider that a shotgun is a Weapon:3 attack and assuming a Guns skill of 2, Joe takes on average "only" five shifts of damage, filling in 1 stress box and inflicting only a "moderate" consequence.  Considering that it takes 23 shifts of damage to kill Joe Genero, avoiding the First Law is a lot easier than you think (at least with Evocations)--you'd have to make a determined effort to kill a person.

Given that the characters in a DFRPG are 'special,' I'm considering changing the numbers for normal people so that instead of gradually increasing hits absorbed for consequences, they should only count for 2 each.  For all practical purposes, this means that a typical human will only need 11 shifts (two stress boxes plus two per consequence) to die.  Yes, I know that most people don't fight to the death and will accept consequences and concede--but without this rule, Joe Genero cold take 2-4 shotgun blasts before dying.  I mean, come on--players shouldn't throw 6 shifts (twice as strong as a shotgun) around and blithely assume that "normals" will survive any stray hits.  Heck, they can throw regular firepower about and assume "normals" will survive.  Am I overreacting or just plain wrong?

[Haru]

Joe Genero usually has no consequences to spend. Consequences can be looked at as "plot armor". While the Player characters and important NPCs can use those, Joe Genero usually only has his stress track, if even that. You could easily do a guns maneuver to turn Joe Genero into a "Dead Body" aspect, and you haven't inflicted a single shift of stress. If the players use excessive force in a crowded room, they will most certainly kill innocent people.

Also keep in mind, that a single guns roll does not necessarily mean a single shot, it can mean a number of shots, but only one of them hits, and all those other shots could hit innocent bystanders and kill them easily.

For that matter, I've had unnamed NPCs, that didn't have consequences, and as soon as their stress track runs over, they die. Which often enough happens after the first attack against them. Good for swarming the PCs to stall them.

[Sanctaphrax]

Indeed, Joe really shouldn't get consequences. Consequences are for people who matter.

[Mr. Death]

Also, even if he did get all the consequences, 23 shifts to kill is only if it's happening all at once. If all his stress boxes are filled, even the slightest hit is going to force a consequence or a Taken Out. You could take him out with 7 shifts total, one at a time.

Also, avoiding breaking the first law has nothing whatsoever to do with how many shifts of stress an attack does.

[Locnil]

You know, I've pretty much accepted that people should get consequences scaling with their importance, but I still can't find support for it in the RAW. Can anyone help?

[Mrmdubois]

I think it's sheer player conceit, but it makes sense.

[Lavecki121]

Also consequences and stress dont necessarially mean that he is getting that damage. He isnt standing in front of the shot gun, not moving, and taking the full blast to the face 4 times. He is moving, avoiding the shots, trying to get away. Just because a shot is fired doesnt mean that he is being hit by it. He could be taking that stress because to avoid the shot he jumped through a window and got cut by the glass. Its a narrative buffer, or as someone said before "plot armor"

[blackstaff67]

Ah, my bad.  Yeah, I get that inflicting stress doesn't necessarily mean getting hit.  I just didn't know that ordinary Joe and Jane didn't get consequences.  Just can't recall where that was put in...

[admiralducksauce]

YS page 327, guys. Where it talks about types of supporting characters in Running the Game.

In general, nameless NPCs should never
accept consequences—when they take stress
past their stress track, they’re taken out. Also,
you shouldn’t make a nameless NPC more
competent than Good at anything—if they’re at
that level, they should probably be a supporting
NPC instead.

And then under Supporting NPCs:

Supporting NPCs should not fight to the
bitter, bitter end—the most determined of them
should fight to a moderate consequence at most
before you concede the conflict to the PCs.

In their example with Tim the Sniper, who has a name, a few aspects, and skills (in other words, waaay more of an important character than your average mook), they don't even expect HIM to go beyond a Moderate consequence.

And if you run it differently for your game, that's fine - just that a few people were wondering whether this stuff was actually in the book or if it was FATE CW.